Time To Rethink Fish Oil Capsules, The Truth About Omega 3 & 6 Processing with Delia McCabe

We had a great conversation with Delia about a lot of subjects, nutrition, fats, oils. One of the biggest pieces of information she gave us was the truth on fish oil. Fish oil has to be processed at very high temperatures, to be able to get the heavy metals, PCBs, and all the other toxins. Omega 6 and omega 3 oils that do not like light, heat and oxygen.

About Delia

Delia McCabe (PhD) shifted her research focus from clinical psychology to nutritional neuroscience upon discovering nutrition’s critical role in mental wellbeing while completing her Masters. Delia’s research into female stress has been published in a number of peer-reviewed journals, she is a regular featured expert in the media and her two internationally available books are available in four languages. Using her background in psychology, combined with evidence-based nutritional neuroscience and neurological perspectives, Delia supports behavior change and stress resiliency within corporates, and for individuals who want to optimize their brain health, via online courses, workshops and tailored events internationally. Find out more at www.lby.life

www.lby.life

www.feedingfatty.com

Full Transcript Below

Time To Rethink Fish Oil Capsules, The Truth About Omega 3 & 6 Processing with Delia McCabe

Sun, 6/20 8:15PM • 1:01:43

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

brain, fats, people, eat, omega, fish oil, delia, oils, body, diet, functioning, habit, optimally, essential fats, feel, feeding, good, bit, alzheimer, day

SPEAKERS

Delia, Terry, Roy Barker

Roy Barker 00:05

Hello and welcome to another episode of feeding fatty. I'm Roy I'm Terry so we are the podcast chronicling our journey through wellness, which includes diet not eating not being on a diet as much as just our the food consumption portion as well as exercise mindset. It's a we're really looking at a holistic approach. And as we've gotten deeper into this, you know, we've added things to our repertoire, such as meditation and journaling, journaling and the other thing, the one that starts with the are Oh Reiki, right,

Terry 00:43

like the way he says it though?

Roy Barker 00:47

No, I can't. Anyway, he

Terry 00:48

says Reiki

Roy Barker 00:50

but in, you know, intermittently, we do have a guest professionals in the field to come on and that's what we have the day and Terry, I'm gonna let you introduce Delia.

Terry 01:00

Yes. Welcome to Delia McCabe. She is a PhD who shifted her research focus, from clinical psychology to nutritional neuroscience upon discovering nutritions critical role in mental well being while completing her master's. Delia's research into female stress has been published in a number of peer reviewed journals. She is a regular featured expert in the media and her two and her internationally available books are available in four languages. using her background in psychology, combined with evidence based new nutritional neuroscience and neurological perspectives. Delia supports behavior change and stress resiliency within corporates and for individuals who want to optimize their brain health via online courses, workshops and tailored events internationally. Delia, thank you so much for coming onto the show. We've been looking forward to this for a long time.

Delia 02:01

Thank you, Terry. And thank you, Roy. So have I really been looking forward to this,

Roy Barker 02:06

I'm gonna merge to the right here. Probably regret this because we could talk for hours about personal stuff. But this is a this is an interesting story. And this is one of the this is one of the great things that keeps us podcasting is because as a lot, as a lot of you know, we have, we have had some internet issues, and we really haven't taped much over the last six weeks, but right before the crash, you know, deal you came on and we talked to her and you know, getting things ready. And we even tried to come on and do the show, I think then it was just, we just didn't have the bandwidth to do that. And so anyway, we just like, Alright, we'll talk to you when we get this fixed. In the meantime, she sends us an email says, Hey, what do you know, my husband's gonna be in Austin. And coming up to Dallas for a side trip. Maybe we can get together. So anyway, we got together with him. We had an awesome time. Did a little countdown thing down in the stockyards. Got some good barbecue, walked around for a little bit and

Terry 03:05

made him get a long horn balloon. Yeah,

Roy Barker 03:07

we had to get like a balloon hat tied up. But anyway,

Terry 03:10

Miko is great.

Roy Barker 03:11

I think the point is that just you know, how lucky are we to be able to meet awesome guests from all around the world and who thought that you know, somebody that we talked to in Australia, you would have a husband in in Texas that we could go out and hang out with her.

Terry 03:28

That was so fun. Now we got to get her.

Roy Barker 03:30

Yeah. Now that's our next step. Anyway, I digress. But I thought, you know, that's such an awesome story to tell that, you know, we don't interject that enough. I don't think that you know, what great people that we meet from all around the world, it's just it's

Terry 03:45

them face to face? Well, yeah, sort of indirectly.

Delia 03:49

I think it's, it's really funny, because I've met you, you know, as you said, the internet issues and so we never got the podcast really done. But I haven't really met you in person. And they My husband is really making areas and wonderful and that's only because technology has allowed us to do this. And then of course, some limited travel now.

Roy Barker 04:09

Right? Exactly, exactly. Like, we want to digress. I know we could be off on that for like I said for hours. And anyway, we want to get to talking about nutrition and let y'all kind of had a roadmap already lined out. I'm not gonna jump in. I'll let Terry let y'all lead into that.

Terry 04:27

Okay, um, where would you like to start? You want to talk about improving Well, on your on lighter, brighter you your website? You have an informative blog. Should we touch a little bit on that improving cognitive function? You want to go there a little bit first?

Delia 04:50

I think let me just explain how I got into nutritional neuroscience. That would be good. I think a lot of people go off and x psychologist, you know, what were you doing? So It was interesting for me because I was innopolis is dating me because it was more than 25 years ago, I was busy finishing my Master's in psych. And I was working with a group of really smart school kids who were really doing poorly at school. And my experimental group, these are the kids who were smart and doing poorly. I was doing an intervention with them, because I was curious about the psychological variables that led to the underachievement. And I was looking at what I could do and say, to help these children be focused and concentrate and study and make their parents and teachers breathe a sigh of relief. And I had a questionnaire that I gave to both the experimental group and the control group who were the smart kids doing well. And I had a little bit of extra space on the questionnaire. And you know, fate is a very funny thing and destiny. Because in that space, I asked them a question. I said, What is your favorite food? And the answer was really astonishing. Because every single one of the children in the experimental group loved some form of junk food. And the children in my control group were the opposite. You know, they were interested in Sunday lunch, or you know, roast roast chicken, and maybe veggies and salads and so on. They didn't focus on junk food. And it's very seldom in research that you come across such a clear distinction. No. So I was really stuck, because I couldn't really write that up into my thesis, because it wasn't part of what I was looking at. I was looking at psychological variables, not, you know, nutritional physiological variable. So I wrote my thesis, I've made a short mention of that. And then thought, Well, I'm going to take a break now and examine this whole nutrition and the brain story, because I was just about to have my daughter. And I thought, I'll take a bit of a break and check it out. And as I say, destiny and fate are weird things. Because after I dived into the subject, which 25 years ago was not a big subject. And there were only a few researchers around the world examining this, I realized that I didn't want to be a talking therapist anymore. I didn't want to look at ways to get people to change their lives when their brain wasn't functioning optimally. Because the bottom line is really very clear that thinking and behavior change. And everything that we do between our ears, happens across this huge network that's made up of cells, and chemicals, and membranes and molecules, all of which rely on lifestyle choices, primarily nutrition, to keep it all going. So for now, I need to really check this out and see how it works. So I thought to myself, well, it'll take me a couple of months. And I'll understand what this is all about. And, you know, 25 plus years later, you're right, I'm still learning. But I think what my mission is, is to explain to people like when their brain is functioning really well, because it's well fed, it's a whole lot easier to live a good life, because you make better decisions. When our brain is functioning optimally, you know, you're in a better mood, you think more clearly, you can be more creative, you have more energy naturally. And obviously, your brain ages really well, which is what we all want. So that that is my mission to explain to people, but the challenge has been, you know, I'm basically teaching prevention, and most people want cure. And the challenge with the brain is that it is functioning and trying to work optimally in sub optimum conditions for 95% of the population. And it does all these fancy and clever workarounds. So that we only realize that the brain has degraded 20 to 25 years after the degradation starts, oh, wow, most of the brain sophistication. So I'm really in a difficult spot, because I'm teaching prevention, and most people want to cure. But yeah, so that that's basically the foundation of where I started and why I didn't want to be a talking therapist anymore. For me, it was, I felt like it actually wasn't being honest, because I wanted people to first nourish their brains optimally before they could actually start looking at behavior change.

Terry 09:18

And that makes it makes a lot of sense. And, but because people want to just throw pills, they just want something to eat, they want medication, whatever to fix something but if they look at it in a more holistic manner, and and if they start now, it's never too late to start, right and then they can

Roy Barker 09:40

stop. That's what I was just sitting here thinking now our boat might have sailed. So

Delia 09:47

I think the most wonderful thing about the brain is that it is very receptive to when you start giving it what it needs. And we definitely now know that even people that have got Alzheimer's if they follow a very strict protocol can reverse some of the damage. So there are researchers out there who are investigating that at the forefront. But it is so much better to practice prevention. And the sooner we do it, the better because you know, when's the best time to start? Well, yesterday would have been better, but today is just as good is just as good. Well,

Roy Barker 10:19

that's the problem is that, you know, I'll speak for me that part of my problem is, you know, when you're young, and maybe some things are not right, your your body adjust, and it's not a big deal, it doesn't drag you down, like it does in your old age. So we tend to think, you know, we're bulletproof for, I'll get that under control tomorrow, you know, I've got another day. And, you know, even I'm sure people that smoke a lot and drink a lot. It's like, you know, I feel pretty good today, I can, you know, smoke for a little bit longer, and then I promise I'll quit or drinking. And the reality is that, no, we need to take these practices from childhood, because I think it's something that you've mentioned, of course, but I think this too, is that nourishment is so important to the education of our children. And not only eating correctly, but in the sad thing is, in some cases, eating at all. And you know, that kind of the pandemic shaunda really bright light on that is that a lot of our school districts had to continuing to serve meals, because that was where a lot of children, that's the only meal that they had. So I know that's a whole different subject. But you know, the reality is, it's never really too early to get into this. And as parents, we should always be, you know, a lot more conscious about our children and what they eat, because of the learning ability at that time, but also habits and then that, you know, we carry these bad habits into our age to our older age.

Terry 11:49

And Delia knows because she bred some very smart children married a very smart man and very smart kids.

Delia 12:00

Well, I think that's a funny way of saying it, but I think it's kind of like, fate was on the side as well, because as I discovered all these things, I started implementing them. And so my children definitely benefited from that, because research suggests very clearly that your child will reach their genetic potential, the intellectual genetic potential, if the brain is optimally fit, if it's not optimally fit, then I can't reach that intellectual potential, which is a very sobering thought and for parents that really care about their children, you know, you want your child to maximize their capacity to be fulfilled. And one of the ways we do that is by making sure our brain functions well, so, Roy, your comment about habits, of course, if you start out, you know, when you're young, and you learn all these good habits about feeding your brain and your body really well, then you don't have to break bad habits later on. Right, the breaking of the bad habits, that becomes really challenging, because there's also some research to suggest that children's taste buds develop in the first seven years of life. Wow. So if that's the case, then to change those taste buds. When children are older, then seven becomes so much more challenging. So it's really good to catch them when they young to just get them to embrace the kinds of foods that support them across a lifetime.

Roy Barker 13:20

Yeah, so let's talk about that for a minute about feeding our brains. The I guess, intuitively, we just know, preservatives, fast foods, I guess, sometimes high carbs, high sugars, things like that are not good. But let's talk about what is good. I mean, what what really nourishes our brain and what feeds it to help us to maximize that.

Terry 13:46

It's a great question, right? Yeah, sorry, Terry. I said in a nutshell, excuse me.

Delia 13:52

It's an important question. And it's obviously the answer is huge. So I'm going to break it down into a few important things. And the first one is the fats and oils that we consume. Now, this was a big surprise to me. But when I discovered that 60% of the dry weight of the brain is made up of fat, I was really quite fascinated by that. Because that meant to me that I had to find out a lot about fats and oils. Because of that 60% between 20 and 25% needs to come from a fat that our body cannot make. That means it's got to come from our diet. And even if a nutrient has to come from our diet, it is called an essential nutrient. It means the body can't make it. So these are essential fatty acids, we talking about omega six and omega three and we'll unpack them in a moment. The other two categories of fats are saturated fats, and mono unsaturated fats, and the body can make saturated fats and mono unsaturated fats would use where The whole low fat diet catastrophe came in. Because when food was devoid of any fat, but had a lot of carbs in it, and a lot of refined carbs, for example, refined sugar, what happened was that too much of that actually gets converted into saturated fat in the body. So scientists didn't realize that when they put the low fat diet into place, everyone, but oh, well, that's fine, we can eat carbs until the cows come home. But guess what? excess carbs are stored as fat. So that's how the body makes saturated fat and also mono unsaturated fat. But omega six and omega three are completely different, we have to get them from our diet. And unfortunately, 95% of the population is deficient in these fats. And that's a huge problem. Because without these fats in the brain, specifically, the brain can't function optimally. Now, the question that most people ask me at this point, so I'll preempt both of you. The question is, why are these facts so important? And the reason they're so important is because of the critical role they play in the cell membrane in the neuronal membrane. So we'll talk about the brain year, but you just need to keep in mind, excuse the pun, that these fats do exactly the same kind of job in the rest of the body as well. It's just that in the brain, the functioning is even more important, because of the sophistication and sensitivity of to how the neurons communicate with each other. So if you can imagine a cell membrane, that cell membrane needs to be extremely flexible and malleable, to be able to communicate optimally with its neighbor, and to be able to send the electrical impulse, the electro chemical impulse that neurons communicate with to the next neuron really quickly and really efficiently. If the cell membrane is made up of lots of saturated fats, then it's less flexible, it's less malleable, it's less able to respond very quickly. And so the message doesn't get to the next neuron and the next one, and the next one as efficiently. So those omega three and omega six fats are very, very specific in the molecular structure, that molecular structure will determine how efficiently the neuronal membranes will function. And from that everything else stems. Because it's not just the neurons that need that correct mix of fats. It's also the actual organelles inside the cells, like the mitochondria. And everything else that lives inside the cells, he also needs a layer of fat to be able to keep it intact. So those essential fats are critical for brain function. When we speak about what they do in the body, they do an enormous amount of things in the body as well. immunity, metabolism, blood pressure, growth and development, the list goes on and on. And interestingly, you know, when when I love the name of your podcast, I think it is the funniest and most unique and, and cute name. You know, when we speak about weight loss, without these essential effects, we have two problems. These fats help the genes that switch on fat burning to be switched on. And they talk to the genes that organize fat storage, and turn them off. So if you think about those two things, those essential fats, make sure that your metabolism kicks up and works really efficiently and that you don't store fat as efficiently. So when people start consuming these correct fats, they suddenly have more energy. Number one, because they mitochondria is now functioning optimally, their metabolism is working faster, it deals with cravings, because your cravings are reduced when you've got these the right amount of these fats. And also you don't store fat as efficiently. So the function of these fats are came upon them. And they function in the body kind of by accident, because I was looking at the functioning in the brain. And I thought, Wow, we need these in our brain. And then I realized when I looked at more and more of the research, we need them every way. It's just that they lack in the brain is very, very noticeable when people look at brain function and brain development, but really, we need them everywhere. And as I said 95% of the population is deficient in these fats and oils. So that's a huge challenge because most of the fats that are available to us, you know, in those golden aisles at the supermarkets, most of those facts are unfortunately omega six fats, which are good if they're not processed, but the ones in the golden isles are pro syst harshly. And when those oils are processed, they are unfortunately filled with trans fats and other damaging fats. So you're getting the Omega six you need, but you're also getting damaged fats. And then you're not getting the omega three that you need to go with the Omega six, because the ratio between these two essential fats is critically important, we need more of the omega three than the Omega six, because the omega three is more involved in our metabolically active organs like our brain, our heart, our adrenal glands, and our reproductive organs. And omega six has other roles to play. But because of its molecular structure, it's not as active in those other metabolically active organs. So just to go back for a moment, what most people have in their diets today is lots and lots of omega six, because that is used for fried food. It's used, you know, for salad dressings, it's used for making, you know, biscuits and cakes, because that's what people have gotten used to using. And people have not enough omega three. So it's a complex conversation when I give a lecture on fats and all the tests over three hours. So I'm giving you the Cliff's notes here, you know, just the the base summary, but it's extremely important for people to understand that these essential effects are critical for us to thrive. So what are some sorry,

Terry 21:27

what are some examples of omega three?

Delia 21:33

theory, there's some great examples of omega three, flax seeds are high in omega three as our chia seeds. And green leafy vegetables are also high in omega three. And these are the plant forms of omega three, when most people speak about omega three, they speak about fish oil. And fish oil contains d, h, a and EPA, which if you can think about it this way, they are derivatives of the plant based forms. So the body gets the plant based forms and then converts them into DHS and EPA. Or if you eat cold water, fish, or use solar fish oil tablets, you get the DOJ and the EPA directly. But it is not a good choice to do that. Because that fish oil has to be processed at very, very high temperatures, to be able to get the heavy metals, the PCBs, all the other toxins that the fish now contain out of them. And the best and the cheapest way to get those toxins out of the fish oil is to heat that all up to a very high temperature. But this is the sticky part with omega six and omega three oils that do not like light, heat and oxygen. So the minute they exposed to the to those elements, they start degrading. And then they will have things like trans fats and polymerized fats and sacklers fats inside them. So when people swallow fish oil, they're not aware of the fact that although the fish oil manufacturer will say on the bottle, triple refined, and the user will think that's great, nothing bad in it, they don't realize that sneakily unfortunately, those products now contain other damaged compounds, because of the harsh processing. So that's a little bit complicated for people to get their head around. But the bottom line is this, if you consume enough of the plant based forms of omega three and omega six, which I'll say where they found in a moment, if you can consume enough of those plant based forms, and you have enough vitamin C, B, three B six, zinc and magnesium in your diet, then the body naturally knows how much of that plant based form to convert into the DHS and the EPA, it will do it automatically. It's been doing it since the beginning of time. And it can still do that. But visual manufacturers tell people Oh no, it can't do that. It only does it add between 2% and 5%. But that's actually the percentage that the body wants to make. In in each go if I can put it that way, because then it's fresh, and it uses it where it needs to use it. If any body that's listening, and maybe either of you had ever gone into hospital, what I now ask people is are you on any supplements, or any of them maybe fish oil, and if that's the case, it's a problem, because if people are on fish oil, they can bleed out, because it makes your blood so thin because I've got too much THC and epi in them. But if you have plant forms, then your body knows how much to make and how much you know is required. So that's quite a long answer. I'm sorry.

Roy Barker 24:58

No, no that just um Because we probably over supplement and I know I take, you know quite a bit of fish oil every day. So I'm just going to, after we get through, run over to the cabinet and throw that in the trash and be done with it, wow. But

Terry 25:11

we also, I mean, if we do smoothies and we try to we try to do more of them, we do add flaxseed and chia and spinach, or kale.

Roy Barker 25:21

And I think to reinforce your message, I don't want to jump ahead of you. But this just gets back to the fact that we just talked about wanting to take a pill to cure thing. So yeah, we want to take a pill to cure all of our deficiencies in our poor eating habits. And so instead, let's get back to the basics and eat a good well rounded diet. And, you know, the other thing I think that really helps us is choosing a, an app to track this stuff for you. And I'll let you comment on this. But you know, there's an app that you can put all this in, that'll tell you the macronutrients and the one that we use actually has at the bottom, there's like four or five different combinations, the omega three and omega six just happens to be one and it's got a little dial, they'll tell you too much three too much snakes, you know, and it tries to put you right in the middle.

Delia 26:16

I think Yeah, there were a few things just to mention there, Roy, I think we do actually need to supplement three and omega six we do. And I discovered the supplement that I recommend to people and that we've been using for 25 years 25 years ago. So it's a supplement that combines the plant forms of omega three and omega six in the right ratio that's in the favor of two to one favor of omega three. But it's actually processed in a factory that Michael actually went and had a look at, that makes sure that light heat and oxygen don't damage the oils. So it's, in other words, it's made with health in mind, not profit in mind, right. And it's a fantastic product and are recommended to people you know, when I stand in front of an audience or I do a workshop, I actually get them to taste this product. So I do believe in supplementation, but evidence based supplementation. And because I know how to read labels, I know what's a good product and what isn't, and also how it's made, specifically the fats and oils. So that is definitely important. As far as an app goes, if people find that an app supports them, in terms of the micronutrients and macronutrients and how much they're consuming, then I think it's a wonderful tool to use. But if you don't have time, and you're not bothered to do that, when you eat a plant based diet, which I know we'll touch on in a little while, again, Roy, when we eat mostly a plant based diet, you know, what is our q? r Q is how we feel, if we satisfied after a meal, if we have enough energy, you know, to get through a day, and we feel sharp and clear. If our weight is the way that we wanted to be. And if the way we eating is sustainable, then that's a way to know that you're getting all your macronutrients and your macronutrients, so an app can help you to get to that place. But maybe it isn't the thing to rely on forever. Yeah. Because the way we feel physically and mentally should be the best guide to how well we are feeding ourselves and moving and meditating and supporting ourselves in other ways. I think, you know, technology can definitely support us. But I think relying on technology, because I know somebody, for example, who's got this little thing that she puts on her arm. And it will tell her when her body battery is running low. So she'll wake up in the morning. And she also obviously didn't sleep well, because my body battery isn't isn't well, and I'll say to bed, how do you feel like you slept? How do you feel, this person can no longer distinguish between how she really feels, and what her little device is telling her. So I just warn people, you know, that's just the psychology of technology, that it can sometimes override our own common sense. And that's something that we need to guard against. I mean, just for example, in winter, we want to eat more comforting foods, that would seem to be more fattening. But then when summer comes, we dropped those foods and we may drop a kilo or two, and that's perfectly fine as well. So I think we just need to keep the balance there between you know, is technology serving us or how do we actually feel because I think ultimately that's the thing that really matters the most?

Roy Barker 29:31

Yeah. So back to the omega threes and sick that the plant based supplement you were talking about is that easy to find. Is that something that or do we have to look hard for it or how could we acquire them? What is it

Delia 29:45

it's not hard to find at all you'll find that in any home health food store or any sprouts store. I hope I'm using that name correctly. I think there is a sprouts in America and it will be in the refrigerated section so it will be in the fridge It will be kept cold, it's in a dark box, it's in a dark bottle. And it's nitrogen flushed, which means that nitrogen is put into the bottle before the oil is put into it. So there's no oxidation that happens to that product at all. And it's a product that I'm very happy to recommend. And I'll give you the details. So you can put them in the show notes.

Roy Barker 30:20

Yeah, Yeah, that'd be great. Okay, yeah, cuz we're in because, you know, we need to, if this fish oil is probably not suiting us, but may actually be, you know, damaging to us, we need to quit doing that. We'll switch over to this so good. Anyway, sorry. Before we move too far from this, too, I want to talk about the fats, the low fat, because, you know, my career has mostly been dealing with the elderly in some manner. And so, you know, we had Alzheimer's has gone off the scale, I think we read the other day, 6 million Americans are suffering from some form. And there was a study, it was one. One person, it's not a study, one person tried this, they, they they ended up doing some longitudinal studies that I haven't really heard results. It hasn't been that long, though, since this happened. But anyway, so there's a test for Alzheimer's, it's the clock test, basically, you draw a circle on a piece of paper, the person you are testing puts is supposed to number one through 12, around the outer parts. And typically, what you will see with Alzheimer's patients is the numbers will be either backwards or they'll be crazy. This one person that we're talking about in Florida, have his numbers are all down around the six, everything was just all piled down there. So his wife, I don't know, I don't remember the backstory. But somehow she started feeding him one, tape mill spoonful of coconut oil three times a day. Now you have to be careful because it's hot klore. But you know, he had other issues. So they did it. And within about six weeks, he was able to get pretty dang close with this clock face. And so anyway, made me think, was this low fat craze that we had in the 70s. And in the 80s, some root cause of what we're seeing now, and I've read some research and, and it feels like that it was, you know, nobody can be totally conclusive. But I think that they felt evidentiary wise that there's a pretty good linkage between that and I can, I don't want to take up a lot of time talking about that. But I feel like it's important because it gets back to this thing. decisions that we make today can catch up with us in 20 3040 years in ways that we really never thought possible.

Delia 32:52

Absolutely. Right. And it's a very good point. And I'm glad you brought this up. Because the truth of the matter is a Brian that is the product of the rock cons effect, will end up becoming unable to function optimally. So the low fat diet was put into place by researchers who didn't understand the complexity of fats and oils in the diet, which is the most complex aspect of nutrition, we can speak to the fact that the coconut oil helped, because obviously, his brain was not incapable of using carbohydrates as a source of energy, which is the brain's natural and preferred source of energy. But if the neurons become incapable of using that form of energy, the body can actually convert saturated fat from, for example, coconut oil into something called ketones, which the brain can use as a source of energy. So this is something that researchers are getting more involved in to find out if that actually works for the brain that is not functioning well like a dementia brain. And they're finding that it is the case, it seems to be the tendency, but it's only when the brain becomes incapable of using carbohydrates that that seems to be useful or otherwise, if the whole body goes into keto Genesis, then the brain is forced to use ketones as a form of energy, whether that's sustainable or not. There is no evidence to support that, whether it's good for the body long term, some danger points there as well. So yes, helpful when the brain is already degraded, not as a lifetime sustainable option.

Roy Barker 34:27

Okay. Yeah, look, I don't want to derail you if you are kind of, you know, going in order, but that kind of transitions nicely into, you know, the keto and keto genix and then Leo and yeah, and then also, you know, plant based, it's like, there's so much stuff swirling out there. And, you know, I'll just keep it brief, but give you my story. You know, a few years ago, I did the I didn't really do strict keto. I just tried to really fight to keep my carbs. About 40 a day 40 to 60 was the range that, you know, my doctor had told me to stay in. And, you know, I had pretty good luck with it. But then after a while, and I never really got into the, the ketogenesis part. But after a while I heard, you know, bad things that, that so much protein can be hard on you. And the other thing I think it was worth mentioning is that you, it's not like a protein fest just eat all you want, because you have to watch your limits, because from what I've heard, the body is smart enough, after a while, if it doesn't have the carbs, that it will start turning proteins into glucose or you know, something like that, then that makes it hard on your organs as well. So again, we just get back to, you know, all the stuff that's out there, we are doing more plant based, which means for us, we can still eat meat, we just limit that meat and try to you know, make sure we're getting proteins from our beans and things like that. And, you know, then we heard a story about us being omnivores, you know, like, the carnivores have sharp teeth, and a shorter or longer digestive system. True plant based animals have different teeth, and either the longer shorter, so we are truly from what I've heard, you know, we're truly somewhere in the middle. But again, it's there's so much information on the keto. There's information on both sides. So help us help help us sort that sort all this stuff out.

Delia 36:47

It's a really interesting thing. Because the longer that I've been in this field, the more I see, you know, all these different dietary protocols come out and people swear, this is the one for me, and this is the one for me. So I'm always curious, firstly, about the kind of personality that looks at this Doc, because Okay, this one is going to work. So we can unpack that a little bit later, maybe. But the bottom line is this, the only evidence based diet that has been examined in enough detail and depth to show its long term sustainable efficacy, in terms of health, physical and mental is the Mediterranean diet. That's the only diet that has been studied. Now that's a diet that is very much plant based. And then with meat on top of it. Okay, so that's the first thing to keep in mind. The second thing to keep in mind with all these different approaches, and for example, we can take keto and paleo as the examples. They are cutting out major food groups. So what some people have done, they've tweaked them to make them a little bit better in some ways. But let's take paleo first, for example. You know, the Paleo people will tell you that we used to live on meat in the olden days when we ran across the savanna and killed animals with glee and reckless abandon. The truth of the matter is that that's not the case. We actually used to hunt animals in small groups, not all the time, because hunting animals was hard work. And it also was dangerous. If someone got hurt, they didn't quickly have a penicillin injection to give them and say, Hey, make you right now. So hunting, wasn't this, this glorified wonderful activity that was continuously engaged in, we did eat meat, which is why we've evolved to need b 12, and iron and zinc, which comes from animal products. But we did not live on them continuously. Maybe some groups of people did, but then they were deficient in many nutrients that we that they weren't consuming at that point in time. So you know, the Paleo people will cherry pick research to support their view, but it doesn't. It isn't supported long term with solid robust evidence. The second thing about a ketogenic diet, once again, the focus is on fat, a lot of its saturated fat, unless it's tweaked, it doesn't contain essential fats. And you know, we've just discussed how essential essential fats are because we have to get