427. How to Find Success by Being Authentically You

4日前 • 43分

What if you could ditch perfectionism and still get results? Lesley Logan interviews Erin Hatzikostas, author of You Do You(ish) and The 50% Rule. Erin shares her powerful 50% Rule for simplifying decisions, cutting through the overwhelm, and staying authentic. Drawing on her experience as a former corporate CEO, Erin reveals how embracing imperfection can help you find a path that truly reflects your values and goals.

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In this episode you will learn about:

Erin’s journey from corporate CEO to authenticity advocate.
What the 50% Rule is and how it can simplify decision-making.
How authenticity became Erin’s secret weapon in the corporate world.
Practical ways to experiment with authenticity and reflect on your results
Why perfectionism and comparison cramps can hold you back.

Episode References/Links:

Guest Bio:

Erin Hatzikostas is a former Corporate CEO turned Professional Pot-Stirrer. Recently called “An up-and-coming Mel Robbins” by the Founder of The Keynote Shop, Erin Hatzikostas is an internationally-recognized leader on the impact of authenticity in the workplace. The CEO and founder of b Authentic inc, Erin is a global keynote speaker, the best-selling author of You Do You(ish), the co-host of the podcast, b Cause Work Doesn’t Have to Suck, and coach-sultant. Her TEDx Talk was one of the Top 20 globally most viewed TEDx Talks released in 2021.Her talks have reached hundreds of thousands of people and her thought leadership has been featured on ABC, CBS and published in Business Insider, Fast Company, Well+Good, among several others. Her company also conducted a national study on the impact of authenticity in the workplace.

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Episode Transcript:

Erin Hatzikostas 0:00

You don't wake up tomorrow and go from being nervous about being authentic to being as authentic AF as me. You start with little experiments and you observe more than you normally would.

Lesley Logan 0:13

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 0:54

Be It babe, get ready to be inspired. I know you always are. I'm just gonna say, of course, the episodes are always great, but I have been looking forward to today's interview for a really long time. I watched this woman when she was on stage, and I couldn't take my eyes off of her. I could not and she was running around the stage, and like most keynote speakers, I always get something out of but like, it was like a cardio it was a show, it was an entertainment, it was all these things. And I learned so much from her, and I wrote her name down, like, I have to have her on the podcast. And then life got a little bit busy. Stuff was going crazy. I had a little bit of like, who might ask her? Like, and then about eight months later, this girlfriend, who I've had on the show, Jessica Papineau, was like, oh, you should know Erin. Like, oh, you know how to get in touch with Erin, because I absolutely I can awe of her, right? And so she put us in contact. We had a phone call that went for like an hour. We felt like it was like a friend that I've always known, but I just met, and two weeks later, we had dinner together, and sure book, The 50% Rule is coming out, and you must pre-order it or order it if it's already out by this comes out, but I'm telling you, it will be a mantra that you use, just like be it till you see it is. And I hope it is. I really, really hope it is. I really am in love with what she's doing, and I do think it's something that can actually help propel you out of stuckness or feeling like there's too much on your plate and you don't know how to take action. Like I really do think this is great. So here's Erin Hatzikostas and I am obsessed. So after this, please follow her, stalk her, get this book. Let us know what your favorite part is. I know Erin would love to hear that. And by the way, if you ever have something to say to any of our guests, I promise you you're not bothering them if you tell them. I promise you. And if you're too afraid to DM them, then comment it on the social posts and tag them. Or you don't have to tag them, because guess what? They're tagged on it and they will see it. So you have no idea when you leave a comment like that, when you share people, it lets people like Erin and myself and our other guests know, like, oh my gosh, they get it. The impact of my intent was there. So here's Erin.

Lesley Logan 2:57

All right, Be It babe, this is going to be an amazing conversation. I know already because I've had amazing conversations with our guest today. Erin Hatzikostas is our guest. She is the author of You Do You(ish) and her upcoming book, The 50% Rule. And I'm gonna tell you, in honor of today's interview, I 50% ruled my makeup and getting ready today. It was like, today is not gonna be the day that we do it 100% so. And I was like, It's Erin, though, and she would be honored by me doing that. So Erin, tell everyone who you are and what you rock at.

Erin Hatzikostas 3:26

So first of all, I have to make a comment, because so I did do my makeup. Sometimes I have big girl days. I did an, I did an interview before this too, but we had a mattress delivered this morning. After, like, 12 years, we're past our 10th year we got, finally got a new mattress. We did Safa, which is the online one. Anyway, we're super excited about it. So the guys brought it. They got it all up. They get down. Guys going to say goodbye, tipped him, and he looks at me and he goes, by the way, I like your makeups. It was like, first of all, it was random. Second of all, if you know me, first of all, I'm almost 50. I was not born and raised in the YouTube video. So, like, I do my makeup the same way I probably did it when I was freaking 16. It's like, totally junior league. And to have a guy like, have the guts to like, and I didn't take it as like a, anyway. So it's funny that you brought up makeup, just like, two hours ago, I had some random mattress delivery dudes on the way out say, I like your your makeup.

Lesley Logan 4:26

You're having a great day. And I love it. It's a big girl day. You know what? I have big girl days. And then some days I'm like, we're just not even doing that today. We're just gonna not.

Erin Hatzikostas 4:34

No. And then some of them, you know, when I'm like, looking scroungy and I might have to meet with a client or, sort of, you know, not a friend. Here's what I do. I like, oh, you're getting to see author friend. And they think it's so cool, because I'll have the headband, I'll have my glasses, and my hair is clearly, you know, dirty, but I brand it as like author Erin and I think they think it's like a little cooler, even though I haven't written shit in three months, since my last book has been (inaudible). That's another tip.

Lesley Logan 5:01

You just gave everyone a tip. You guys just brand the other look like you're getting, you're getting like journal person. You're getting like artists. You're getting, I'm deep in thought.

Erin Hatzikostas 5:12

Yeah, just freaking name it. Name it. You know, you know, in this world, naming it is (inaudible).

Lesley Logan 5:17

Gardener Lesley. Brad would laugh. He's like Lesley, garden, no way. Okay, so thank you for all those tips already. But back to you. You're amazing. Who are you?

Erin Hatzikostas 5:27

So it's funny. I will first tell you what my son calls me. So a couple years ago, he was out in the kitchen making a bagel. So it was just sort of a random moment, and he says to me, I think he was about 11, 10 or 11, and he says, Mommy, do you know what a perfectionist is? And I said, yeah, Mick, I do. He goes, you're an imperfectionist. So in honor of sort of a lot of the people that listen, who I know can get caught in the perfectionism, I am a professional imperfectionist, apparently based on my son. But you know, background, I am a former corporate CEO. I was an executive that somehow swindled my way into a CEO position of 1000-person company, had great, quote-unquote, what I thought was luck, turned it around, and always thought that I was going to be found out, though, even though I'm not like, it wasn't imposter syndrome, not like I'd gotten a memo on that, but I would look around and notice that a lot of my peers and colleagues were sacrificing a lot more than me, right? They were getting on planes more often. They were moving their families for things. They were giving up vacations. They were working nights and weekends. And, you know, I worked hard, but I wasn't doing that, and so I sort of had this super, super great turnaround to the company, but I thought, oh shit, my luck's gonna run out soon. And then I just, I decided it was time to retire. I technically could retire because I'd been there so long. I was only 42 years old, but it was technically a retirement. And I just was itching for something new. I thought I would go run maybe a smaller startup, healthcare, financial services company, because that's the place I was in, and when I went to leave, everybody kept saying, we're going to miss your authenticity. We're going to miss your authentic leadership. And I wasn't surprised they called me that, but it wasn't this thing that people were throwing that badge on me when we were running around in the rat race. And what I realized was that I wasn't actually getting lucky, or that I wasn't going to be found out. I was just playing a different game than everybody else, and I was actually, at the time, subconsciously using authenticity as my strategic advantage, my way to sort of compete in a league of my own, because most executives weren't dancing with their employees celebrating a big IT win. They weren't writing their own emails. They're letting their corporate comms people do it, like I, I didn't realize it until that moment that the things that really I had learned from my father, subconsciously also, were actually my strategic advantage. And so that's when I, I started blogging, writing blogs up in the the hockey bleachers at practice, like in a Word document, like, if I ever actually had something to say on a blog, whatever that is, this is what I would say. And one day, I looked down and I was like, holy shit, there are 53 pages, I have some stuff. I have some stuff to say. And one thing led to another. And that's when I finally realized that, oh my gosh, what helped me have success was also the same thing that helped me enjoy for the most part in my days, being in the corporate world, being an executive, being in a high-pressure thing, and I sort of had like this magic formula and a view of authenticity that everybody else wasn't seeing. I knew it wasn't simply be yourself. That's not the real definition. And so I thought, well, crap. I think I need to go out and talk about, teach this, and that's what I've been doing for five and a half years like a weirdo.

Lesley Logan 8:50

That is the best weirdo. And also it's so interesting that you say, I remember your story of like being found out, like not get on these planes. I remember during this time that I was in corporate fitness. Everyone who was in management was like, they're there as soon as the club opened 'til when the club closed, sometimes, especially the last week of every month that I was sneaking off on a plane to go study in Colorado. And I was like, yeah, well, you can access reports online. There's this thing called this internet. And so I remember when someday they're gonna find out that I'm not there, you know, and but also, I was hitting all of these numbers and having amazing success, and I was teaching the people who were underneath me who had studios. I'm like, here's how you do it, here's how you plan your vacations, here's how you plan your life, here, here's how you would teach all these different things. And I was like, I'm gonna get found out one day, and one day it wasn't I was found out. They're just like, oh, you gotta run the reports this way, and you've got to do meetings like this. And I was like, that is not it. And if that's what you want, I'm retiring because, and it's like, I really felt like, you know, and it's this authenticity, it's just like, doesn't have to work. Everyone is doing this thing this way, but there's another way to do it and have fun and be yourself, but like, be yourself at work, you know?

Erin Hatzikostas 10:01

Right. Right. I think, yeah, it was just actually on another I was interviewing somebody from my podcast before this, and we were talking about, okay, it's such a no-brainer, right, to be authentic, especially in the corporate workplace, better retention culture, but also externally, it's easier to sell. You know, you stand up and just like, I just don't understand why nobody does it. And what I told her, you know, I think it's helpful to diagnosis, because whenever you have a no-brain solution, and then you walk away, and then you're like, okay, I heard all that stuff. But why the fuck am I just not doing the things that I should? Why am I not changing? I think a big part of it is for so many years in school and college, we're taught that success is the answer is C, the answer is 72, the answer is, you know, here's the rubric, right? And we judge ourselves based on following that rubric, that box. And then we go to the corporate world, and nobody sits us down and says, what we care about most is results and how you get there, unlike what you've been doing for the last 20 years of your life, it really doesn't matter. And so we sort of go into this like, gotta look right, gotta get the rubric right, don't want to look stupid, there's one path that the teacher laid out, and it's totally not the case. That, you know, it screws us up.

Lesley Logan 10:01

Yeah it does. It screws us up. It makes us, it almost makes us be pretending to be doing because we gotta make sure we check all the boxes.

Erin Hatzikostas 11:28

Yeah, pretend, like you were checking the boxes. Like, oh, if I'm seen, I'm gonna get the rubric right. Like somebody who's judging me is responsible for telling me if I'm a good worker or not, is not going to give me the five points for staying till late on the end of the month. And it's like, wait, no, there isn't a rubric actually, there's just like, we want you to get results.

Lesley Logan 11:51

Yeah, we get stuck on like, what people see versus what the results are. And I think that's because no one is really so like you said, you dance with the people like, no one's actually celebrating the results. They're so focused on being seen doing the steps, that when we get results, people are like, okay, next thing. Instead of going, hey, we got, these are the results we got. And like, how did we get there? And like, what worked and what didn't work, celebrating that result part, as opposed to focusing so much on the check marks that could maybe possibly not get you results.

Erin Hatzikostas 12:21

I would say yes and no. I would say almost. I think that the results eventually get, quote-unquote, celebrated. Maybe there's not a party, but whether it's you're an entrepreneur and it's your client, or you're in the corporate world and it's your boss promoting you, those results get rewarded, maybe not celebrated, but rewarded. But we're so addicted to the short term it's like, for this hour, I want to look cool on this meeting. I want to look right. Not cool, it's probably the wrong word. I want to look right, right? And so we're addicted to, like, short-term results. And if we were just comfortable a little bit like, when I became interim CEO. I was interim first, because that's what us ladies sometimes get to do, you know, the trial period, make sure there isn't anybody better. That's a whole nother story. I know there was a solid month or two where my boss, who was very rant, rant, rant, was a woman probably thought I was nuts and was going to fail, like I was doing some crazy negotiations, etc. But there is that period where, yeah, you might not look like you're going to do right, or people might doubt you. And there were definitely tangible things that happened where I was like, she doubts me, I'm sure. But, Lesley, as soon as I started getting results. Now for me, because I was running a business that was very tangible, like, literally every month we had to do a monthly operating reviews where we went through the frickin financial like, that's right, it was very tangible. It's like, here are the financials, here's our forecast, here's our actuals. But as soon as she started to see that turn around as a leading indicator, and then later, probably started to see, oh, employees really like her, oh, her employee engagement score, she didn't give two hoots about, how I did it and if I did it different, and it's just having the courage in that interim period. And I mean that like small I, not like interim CEO, but in that short term period, to forego that instant gratification of feeling like people think you did it right, so that you can hold out for the bigger reward, and then you can, you know, celebrate it all you want.

Lesley Logan 12:25

Okay, you answered the question I was gonna ask, because I was like, how do you do that, though? And you said, having the courage. And I think that's the, think that's the hardest part, like, where do you find your courage? How do you how do people, you know, is that gonna, is there an answer to that?

Erin Hatzikostas 14:30

Yeah, it's data. It's data. And I don't mean data in the traditional sense. For me, and I didn't know this till I wrote my first book because sometimes we have to slow the frick down and then, you know, I'm 40, whatever I was, 40 years, 44 years old writing a book and I was like, oh, oh, crap, I didn't know that, for me, it started, I had a lot of data from my father. My father was a teacher for 20 some years, and he took an early retirement package, and then he became a real estate agent, and he was very, very authentic. And he would tell stories every night. He would come home, and instead of bitching and moaning about this person or this student, most of the stories I heard, or at least remember are about how he got the attention of his students differently. He did some wacky game, and it even translated as he went into real estate, which I was just coming out of college when he was making that transition. So I was starting, and I would watch his success in real estate, and he would tell stories about, oh, I met with this client, and I didn't bullshit them about the, you know, the price of their home. I told them, you know, it was like, all these, like, where he was. You could tell he was just doing a little different, because it was easy to know what the normal box was for a real estate agent. And so to me, I got a jump start on data. So I saw again, very subconsciously, oh, when he does this, he has success. And so as I went in to the workplace, I started doing experiments, I call them, it all, I would do a little thing and I would notice, oh, people all of a sudden pay attention on this meeting when normally they're like, on their blackberries back in the day or whatever it is. And so I think for people, you don't wake up tomorrow and go from being nervous about being authentic to being as authentic AF as me. You start with little experiments, and you observe more than you normally would. So you might write an email that's got a little like, the workplace is so easy, the bar is so low, so it's just like, maybe you change a word instead of saying, our results weren't that great. You could say our results were really poopy, you know, or just like, one little word, just like talking a little more flippant, talking a little more human. Actually, my number one thing I have people first experiment, change your out of office. Make it, doesn't even have to be funny, just make it like human. Tell people what you're doing. I'm going to a softball tournament this weekend. I'm taking a three-day weekend. Or, you know, a lot of people make them a lot more fun, and then observe what happens. And I guarantee you people are gonna, oh my gosh, I love those days when we used to go to tournaments. My kids are older now or oh, that's so amazing that you did a trip to Ireland. We went there, back and blah, blah, blah. I love your out of office. So it really is about taking little experiments. That's why I love what I do. Like, I'm not a motivational speaker. I'm a get shit done better speaker. My books aren't about like, first of all, they don't tell you to be yourself, because that's not how I talk about authenticity, but they're really very tangible, because you have to, you have to unlearn and you have to do tangible experiments to start collecting that quote-unquote data. And then once you, you know, once somebody smiles or responds when they normally don't or a client you sell something, or people notice your website that normally they've never said anything about. You're just gonna, you're gonna change your pattern. You're gonna be like, maybe I should do more of that.

Lesley Logan 17:32

Yeah, I really, I love that you go on little experiments and reflect and observe, because that is what life is always kind of about, whether it's work or, like, for, you know, I have to do things on social media. And, trust me, I wish I could just, I'm like, when do I don't have to, like, you know? But I, like, recently did a little experiment because my friends are like, you should do this. And I was like, okay, I'm just gonna do, just gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take what you said. I'm gonna do it as easily as possible, because I don't, if it slays and I had to spend two hours, I'm not doing that again, so it has to be so easy. And I did it as and I was like, I was like, Erin's gonna be so proud, because I am 50 percenting all of this. I'm just like, I'm not even careful. I'm just going to do this. And it is one of the best posts we've ever did. So it's a little experiment. And I was like, great. So if I can get that result, not stressing about it, let's we can repeat that experiment and see what happens, and we can kind of see tweak things here and there, but it's got to stay, got to stay, it's got to stay something I can do. That's got to be possible. But I think little experiments with observations are so great because observation is not the same as waiting for feedback. They're waiting for the external feedback, versus with their own meter of what how things are working.

Erin Hatzikostas 18:35

Oh, yeah, totally. They're waiting for that party that will never come, that Bar Mitzvah or that surprise party never comes, you got to look inside.

Lesley Logan 18:47

Okay, so you wrote a second book. And I'm wondering, like, did you always know you had a second book in you? Because you have You Do You(ish). You guys have to know. When I met Erin, she was speaking at She Who Wins and I feel like you did a talk on like it was either the 50% Rule like thing, but I feel like it's a You Do You(ish) and I was like, I am eating this up. I love all of this. This is so great for the recovering perfectionist that is me. So did you know you had a second book in you, or did it kind of just come about as you were talking about your first one?

Erin Hatzikostas 19:15

No, I mean, I did. When I wrote my first book, I was surprised at how much I, I didn't love, I don't have love for writing, but I wasn't a bad writer, I guess. You know, I was a math major on college like writing was not my thing, but I sort of had this epiphany early on in the process, that writing is just talking on paper, and so that's very much my book. Some people always say I can hear you, and I'm like, yeah, because I just talk on paper. I don't overthink it. I say the words like they come out of my mouth. But for both of my books, actually, I really did not get down to writing them until it felt like a gremlin that was trying to crawl out of my stomach. And what I mean by that, even my first book, I remember, had a coach at the time. And I was only about a year into my business and I was like, Elizabeth, I want to do this book. I don't know what it's called, but here's what it's going to be about. And she's like, Erin, you have a lot on your plate. I don't know if you should, you know, be doing that. And I'm like, okay, I'll listen to that. And then I just couldn't stop thinking about it. And then actually, Covid hit. So it was like, no more hockey practices, no more like, why not sit around and write? With the 50% Rule, what happened was it was really an organic, just to kind of tell the story how it came about, so here I was, like, this badass speaking about authenticity on stages, wrote a book, did a TED talk, and meanwhile, I was an entrepreneur, trying to learn how the frick to be an entrepreneur. And I was soaking in all the courses and all the playbooks. And I was part of this group, Brand Builders group, which, literally, will tell you everything you need to do. And I was sitting in Nashville at a two-day session. And I should have been elated, because they have two straight days of training and an 87-page PowerPoint, like, I don't remember which one this was on, but like, how to do X, and instead, I felt totally overwhelmed, uninspired, felt lazy, I didn't want to do it. And I remember though thinking all of a sudden, like, well, what if you just 50% Rule it? And that doesn't mean half ass it. What it meant was, what if you throw out half of the stuff that they're teaching that just doesn't feel like you, feel stupid, maybe feels outdated, you're like, I don't know if that will really resonate with people. But then you bring in your own ideas. You know, you're very creative. You understand the intent, what you're trying to do. What if you bring in your own which I write about in the book. Part of that is the self-determination theory, which absolutely says that people are way more propelled if we have sort of autonomy, or say in whatt we do. So I just remember how quickly that snapped me out of it. So then as I was going along for the next year, same thing would happen. But it wasn't like, right away. It was like, I'd go through something, I'd get all hung up, and then I was like, don't mess, 50% Rule it, right? And then people, whether it was coaching, clients, friends, whatever, it just seemed like, came up all the time. They would be like, oh, I'm struggling with blah, blah, blah. And I would be like, why don't you just 50% Rule it? And they were like, tell me more.

Erin Hatzikostas 22:07

And I would say 50% rule basically, anytime you're doing something new, you're learning from others, listening to a podcast, starting a new product or business, only do about half of what's normal, or what people are telling you to do and then save room for half, what's new and curate that and I just, so then, data, I started to observe people lighting up, coming up with ideas, like, just back to the very beginning, branding, like just part of it is, you know, just putting a name to something and then, but that was not enough to write a book. So I still wasn't like, oh, this is the book. But then what happened is I started kind of seeing it everywhere, meaning I would watch a documentary, or I went, so I, for the first time, I was a little late to the game, but I finally saw Hamilton last year, and I was sitting there.

Lesley Logan 22:51

I still haven't finished it. I know, I know it was only HBO or whatever we watched.

Erin Hatzikostas 22:56

No, no, no, no. Don't see that.

Lesley Logan 22:57

I know. You guys, you have to get there. We have to get to the play in person. I'm hoping it, maybe, it'll come through Vegas. I mean, everything does right, so.

Erin Hatzikostas 23:02

How does it not come (inaudible). You have to see it. It's life changing. So, I was like, wait, his success isn't just because he put together a really freaking good musical. He 50% ruled it, right? He's got half, sort of the normal Broadway formula, but half is just totally juxtaposed, right? With the the rap and the people of color playing white dudes from 300 years ago, etc. So I started to see it there. I saw it with John Madden in the documentary. I saw it with the savannah bananas, Whitney Houston, like I just kept seeing all these examples. And what hit me was that the 50% rule isn't just sort of the step ladder to get over your sort of little mini hurdles and moments that it is actually a formula that helps you really, what I say is go from underdog to unmatched. It helps people like Weird Al is a crappy singer. His voice is not good.

Lesley Logan 23:56

Yeah, it's pretty bad.

Erin Hatzikostas 23:57

He's a phenomenon, like he sold more, some of those songs that he parodied sold more than the actual original, super famous artists, right? All because he 50% ruled it. And so anytime you're trying, you're behind, you're smaller, you're I mean, anytime you do anything, but if you don't want to just work harder, which is just something I don't ever want to do, I don't want to win by being the hardest worker or the best I want to win by standing out and being unique and doing something that's fresh and new and that people want. And so when I finally saw that, I was like, okay, this is, this is a book. This is a gremlin that, and you know, my phone notes when they started being, you know, a mile long. That's when I started the process of, okay, this needs to be book number two.

Lesley Logan 24:45

That's so cool. Thank you for sharing that. And also it's like, as you were sharing, like, all these different examples, of course, as a recipe, for a reason, but then really the things that make even your grandmother's lasagna stand out is because it's not the same lasagna recipe that everyone else is using. Grandma took the basics of it and was like, yeah, but I want to add this cheese instead, or I want to add this meat, or I want to put it this many layers like that is what makes things different, and that indifferent is what stands out. I mean, there's singers every single day trying to make it, and they're doing the exact same thing that other people have done, and it doesn't stand out because we already heard that one already.

Erin Hatzikostas 25:24

That's exactly right. I love it.

Lesley Logan 25:26

So okay, your 50% Rule book as, by the time that this comes out, it will be on shelves or close to it. You guys, we're going to try to time it. But what are you hoping people do with this book?

Erin Hatzikostas 25:38

Yeah, I mean, so I'm obsessed with it, to be honest. And I'm, I'm obsessed first and foremost, with the rule, like, when you start, there's, there's something so beautiful. My team does this. I have a book sort of board that's been meeting for a year and a half. There's a total of like 70 people that volunteered to help, sort of collaborate and guide this book. There's about 25-30 that have been meeting and others have been supporting a whole, you know, a little bit further away. And when you start to hear people constantly like, Well, why don't you 50% rule it, even me as the 50% ruler of all rulers who like, forget like, it just, there's like this in your brain. It's kind of like some of these books where I want people to read it, because I think it's super fun. I.

Lesley Logan 26:22

It's so funny. youAnd you do sound like you're talking to me and like, you guys don't even have to know her voice as well as I know it. It does sound like a friend is telling you amazing advice.

Erin Hatzikostas 26:30

Yeah and it's like amazing advice smacking you upside the head sometimes crazy metaphor, like, because I'm not a disciplined person, I don't want to give people a book that they read because they should, because it's got noble advice in that. I get, I want to give you a book that you're like, just like a fiction book where you're like, I want to read to the end because I'm enjoying it, so that I'm excited about but even if the book's like The One Thing and stuff like that, I gotta be honest, I never read that book, but the concept, I get it. So if there's a whole bunch of people too that are like, oh, my friend told me about the concept or whatever, and you don't read the book, whatever, that would be totally off-brand. If I said, No, you have to read the book. It's like, no, do it your own way. So I just, I really hope that I create sort of this vernacular that has people sort of switch their brain into a different mode on a regular basis and collectively, when you could start doing that, and I'll understand what you're talking about, that's like the real power.

Lesley Logan 27:23

I agree. And I also think it is, instead of like a snap out of it, or just do it, or just get started. You know what I mean? Like, there's a bit of advice in the same tone when you say 50% rule it, it's like an action step with also permission to not have to do it exactly like, check all the boxes. Going back to what we talked about in the corporate world, it is really just like, okay, what if I like these three steps, and what if I start there and I do this because that's what I have access to, and I like, as someone who's had started many companies and done many things, people are like, how did you do that? And I'm like, I just did what I knew I could do, and then kind of had to go, okay, well, what's my version of that? Like, how is, you know, and so it's also putting a name to something that people might already be doing, and thinking, maybe I'm cheating. And instead