Taylore Nicholl, host of the podcast Extra... Ordinary, loves the podcast Armchair Expert and is here with an introduction to the popular interview show hosted by Dax Shepard. Taylore talks about how she started with an interview with Mae Whitman (one of Dax's co-stars on Parenthood) and eventually found herself in a green room at the Ellen Show with Dax!
We talk about childhood trauma, finding father figures through podcasting, the important research around ACES, and Taylore's love of all things theater, drama and Ben Platt. (Happy birthday, Taylore!)
Show Links
- Extra... Ordinary Podcast
- @TayloreNicholl on Instagram and Twitter
- Armchair Expert: Nadine Burke Harris
- The ArmCherry Companion
- Arm Cherry Direct and Arm Cherry Direct linktree
- Newcomers
Transcript follows
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Taylore 0:00 Hi, I'm Taylore Mullins, and my favorite thing is "Armchair Expert."
Announcer 0:04 Welcome to the Finding Favorites podcast where we explore your favorite things without using an algorithm. Here's your host, Leah Jones.
Leah Jones 0:17 Hello, and welcome back to Finding Favorites. I'm your host, Leah Jones. It is Sunday -- I always have to look up the date -- November 28th. It is also the first night of Hanukkah. It's the last day of Thanksgiving, the long Thanksgiving weekend, for those of us who had a four-day weekend. It's also the end of my first cycle of chemotherapy. One of the things I learned this week is that for me, a cycle of chemotherapy is three weeks long. So when somebody had said to me, "Typically in the second cycle is when you start losing your hair," I thought, "Oh, second week, my hair is really holding on strong," giving me a strange sense of invincibility. Also, my hair looks particularly good for being three weeks into my chemotherapy treatment. But the nurses told me to expect to see the hair loss in the next couple of weeks. During the second cycle is when your follicles start to let go.
Leah Jones 1:26 Overall, I've still been feeling pretty good in chemotherapy. My worst days right now are Mondays, Tuesdays after the steroids wear off, but we've worked out my Benadryl levels. Last week, I had terrible Restless Leg Syndrome triggered by Benadryl. This week, I didn't have that. But the weekend, what I lovingly now call "Steroid Saturday," it's a real high-octane day. But I was able to get some sleep last night because my sleep has been a little wonky. Had a really nice Thanksgiving. I'm also a couple weeks out from my COVID booster, which feels good; I'm really grateful I was able to get that. My mom came up for Thanksgiving, my neighbor, Ezra, my nephew, Andy, we ordered in from two different restaurants. And our dining room table was like a Venn diagram of gluten-free, vegan, and neither gluten-free nor vegan. So, like Jack Spratt and his wife, everybody was able to eat at least a third of the dishes served at Thanksgiving.
Leah Jones 2:49 Then tonight, for the first night of Hanukkah, my friend, Nadia and her son Zeke came by and we lit the first candle. And next weekend, I'll have people over for my annual Hanukkah party, but it won't actually be in my apartment -- it'll be in my yard. My dear friends are helping me host that -- all of these adjustments for a holiday season as I become more immunocompromised. I don't know, chemotherapy's weird, man, cancer is weird. That's my answer. This week's episode, we recorded many weeks ago. I really I got quite a backlog because I was so afraid of how I would feel once chemo started. But it's perfect because this week I'm talking to Taylore Nicholl -- Taylor Mullins. She's the host of the "Extraordinary" podcast, which is currently on hiatus, but will be back.
Leah Jones 3:53 And yesterday was her birthday -- Happy birthday, Taylor. Taylor is on this week talking to me about the podcast "Armchair Expert," Dax Shepard's podcast, one that I've mentioned many times before. In the hopes of getting my friend, Jocelyn, to listen to the podcast, I started a little Facebook fan group that then grew to 7,000 wonderful people. There's now a Discord server that kind of spun off of it; things are sort of moving off of Facebook a little bit. But Taylor and I got to know each other in that Facebook group. She famously met Dax Shepard on an episode of "Ellen." He gave her a car, then her podcast was always recorded in her car, a link to the video there.
Leah Jones 4:45 The Armchair Expert community, and also Dax Shepard, have all been very generous and kind with well-wishes and generous gifts since I've been diagnosed with cancer. So, even though I have taken a step back from that community, they have really continued to hold me in their thoughts, and I really am grateful to that online community. I have found podcast communities to be some of the best online spaces. Between Armchair Expert, How Did This Get Made, and Doughboys -- those are the three podcast corners of the internet where I hang out, and obviously also the Finding Favorites community.
Leah Jones 5:33 I hope you had a restful Thanksgiving, that if you are celebrating Hanukkah, you feel the light start to grow, even ahead of the solstice, when the days start to grow again. Keep wearing your mask, wash your hands, get that booster, and enjoy your favorite things.
Leah Jones 6:04 Hello, and welcome to Finding Favorites. I'm your host, Leah Jones. And this is the podcast where we learn about people's favorite things and get recommendations without using an algorithm. Today, I am joined -- we're going back to the guests I know because we like the same podcasts. But this time, it's someone I know from the "Armchair Expert" fan world. I'm here today with Taylore Mullins. Taylor is the host of the podcast "Extraordinary with Taylore Nicholl," which she records in a car, and since the car is currently out of commission, the podcast is on hiatus, as well. Taylor, how're you doing today?
Taylore 6:47 Doing really, really good. How are you? It's nice to see your face.
Leah Jones 6:51 It's so good to see your face. I usually just see you in comments and Instagram, but it's good to actually be talking to you.
Taylore 7:01 Yeah, it's nice to put a voice to your face. Because like you said, I only see you through social media. So, I have to imagine what your voice sounds like.
Leah Jones 7:10 When I'm telling people to like, "Calm down, sit down, go to your corners."
Taylore 7:14 Exactly.
Leah Jones 7:16 I did step down from the admin role of the group. I got to 7,000 people, and also at the same time I when I got diagnosed with breast cancer, that's when I was like, "Okay, I can't. I've got to start rearranging how I use my time." So Robin took on the group and I think a couple other people, which I'm grateful for.
Taylore 7:39 You're still in the group, right?
Leah Jones 7:40 I'm still in the group, and I still listen to the guests that I find particularly intriguing, but I suddenly hit a point where I couldn't keep up, you know? There's a lot of podcasts in the Armchair world now.
Taylore 7:59 And then if you listen any other podcasts other than Armchair Expert, it's so much. I'm behind right now, too. So, I totally get that.
Leah Jones 8:09 So, how are you doing? How was your summer, what's going on?
Taylore 8:14 Honestly, nothing much. Sad news -- I did wreck my car, and I was a delivery driver, so I haven't been employed since I wrecked my car, because you can't really deliver pizza without a car. So, I've kind of just been hanging out. I'm a writer, so I've been writing a bunch and just watching movies, because that's what I like to do. That's, sadly, all I've been up to. But I'm okay with that.
Leah Jones 8:51 Something that is incredibly rare of guests I've had on this podcast is that people could go and watch on YouTube you receiving the car.
Taylore 9:00 Yes, they can on "Ellen." And Dax gave it to me, which was even crazier, and sad or whatever, I wrecked the car.
Leah Jones 9:09 What was the -- what lie did she tell you to get you to fly to California and be on the show? Cause she didn't say, "Come meet Dax Shepard, and I'm going to give you a car."
Taylore 9:25 Right. Right. Well, because of NDA disclosures, I can't say exactly what it was. But I was under the impression that I was there for something completely different, and I had no idea that Dax is even going to be in the same building. So, of course, my imagination, my brain originally thought, "You know, I watch Ellen a lot. I know that they use little things to say 'Oh, we're not doing that, just come here.'" So in my head I was like, "Come on, *could* this be I'm meeting Dax? No, no." I had convinced myself that was not even a possibility. And then of course, I did.
Leah Jones 10:17 It seemed like a very warm conversation with him and very cool.
Taylore 10:24 Yeah, super cool. And it was really nice, because at the time he was shooting "Bless This Mess," and "Bless This Mess" does not shoot in the same place that Ellen does. So I was told that he came there specifically just for that, he drove all the way there just for that, which made it even nicer. Yeah, so nice.
Leah Jones 10:44 Ah, that is nice.
Taylore 10:46 Yeah, just as nice as you think he is on Armchair Expert, on the podcast, 10 times better in person.
Leah Jones 10:54 My friend, Jocelyn, and I -- she's my co-host of Candy Chat Chicago, my other podcast where we talk about candy. We did the stage door of the first Chicago Armchair Expert taping, which was, I feel, maybe only their third or fourth live show -- it was really early. It was also winter, so it was very cold, which is honestly a great time to hang out at the stage door. Because it's only the diehard fans. Jocelyn got to have -- Robin was with us at the stage door that day, who's an admin of the group -- and Jocelyn got to have I feel like a solid four or five minute chit-chat with him. She had brought a present that -- she had been tricked by the people at coat check; they promised they would take it to the green room, and they did not. She described the present she had made, and then the next time she came back, she did not let the powers that be take it, nd she took it and got it to him himself.
Taylore 12:08 Oh, that's so sweet. So did you meet Dax?
Leah Jones 12:10 We did.
Leah Jones 12:11 Oh my gosh.
Leah Jones 12:13 So, she had a long conversation; I got a selfie. So, truly just a very quick interaction for me. Still like, "Oh my god. So really cool." That was a show that Monica's parents were at as a surprise to her. So she was like, "You brought my parents here, and now I would like to go see them."
Taylore 12:38 That's so cool, though. And I think I remember -- did you post a picture of it?
Leah Jones 12:44 I'm sure it all posted. Many pictures. Yes.
Taylore 12:48 I think I remember seeing that. Yeah. Yeah. So cool. I wish I could go to a live show. I was working at the time because I think they went Dallas, Austin, and maybe Houston, San Antonio, something. I'm near Dallas, so I was like -- obviously I had to go, but then I didn't, so, now I regret it.
Leah Jones 13:10 Yeah, it's hard. It's so hard -- my first tickets to live podcasting is in January, and I just cannot wait. Since pre-pandemic, so I've bought tickets to see the "Doughboys,"a fast food podcast. It is the opposite of "Armchair Expert." But I'm really involved in that fan community, as well. I'm gonna go see them in Chicago, at a casino in Connecticut, and then in Boston.
Taylore 13:50 Nice, that is so cool.
Leah Jones 13:52 It'll be fun.
Taylore 13:58 I was just gonna say I can't wait to go to anything. I can't tell you the last thing that I went to. Probably it's something theater-ish. But I go to a concert, I go to see somebody talk somewhere, I'll go to anything at this poin.
Leah Jones 14:14 Texas, famously is approaching COVID differently than Illinois. Are there venues that you would feel safe going to in your area? Are you waiting, or do you not feel -- are things not happening? Or do you not feel like the mitigation is safe enough yet?
Taylore 14:34 So yes, and no. I think it also I feel like this is kind of gross that I do this, but it also depends on the fans that I know would go to those things, if that makes any sense.
Leah Jones 14:49 It makes 100% sense.
Taylore 14:52 There's a few concerts that I was like, "I would go to this," and they have them in the outdoor spaces at this point. I'm in Texas. But even so, I just don't really trust people around enough because I had been to some of those concerts before. I also I don't have money to go to anything at the moment. I know Ben Platt's coming in March, and I would go in a hazmat suit to go see Ben Platt.
Leah Jones 15:22 And I feel like Ben Platt is someone who -- he's going to have vaccinated fans. Is he touring with with original songs, or does he do like a jukebox, does he do show tunes? Like, what does Ben Platt tour with?
Taylore 15:47 Well, he has one album, and he just had another one come out. I didn't go to any of his last concerts, but I know he did a Netflix special for a concert. So, he did all of his original songs, and then he did some covers. So, hopefully now it'll be a mix. Cause I'd love to see him sing some show tunes, too.
Leah Jones 16:12 What sort of writing have you been working on? Are you doing scripts, are you doing memoir stuff? What is the writing you've been doing lately?
Taylore 16:23 I've been really into screenplays for the last few years. So, that's what I've been mainly working on. I've thought about writing some kind of memoir, but anytime I try to go back to that place that I'm trying to write about. I am just, "Okay, never mind. Let's not do this." And then I'll do it again and be like, "No." So one day, maybe we'll get there. But for now, it's just screenplays.
Leah Jones 16:50 Do you have a genre that you focus on? Are you a screenplay writer; do you have parallel stories you're working on, and you're going from project to project? Or are you someone who works on one project, finish it, and then start the next?
Taylore 16:50 I wish I could say that I was the second one, but unfortunately, I am not. I think I will start with one project, and then sometimes, I will map the whole thing out and know exactly what I want to do with it, and then start it and then kind of just come to a roadblock, and then move on to something else, and then come back. That's kind of how kind of how I work. I'll start something or I'll get an idea, and then I'll go at it 100% for months, yeah. And then kind of reach a point where -- I don't know if it's that it's writer's block --but I come to a stop where I'm like, I don't know if I'm not interested in it anymore. What. So then I'll have other projects that kind of go the same way, or watch something, and then want to do something based loosely on what I saw -- the idea that I got from watching it. So I just have a bunch of different projects, and only a few of them are actually finished.
Leah Jones 18:14 Okay. And what sort of genre do you write in?
Taylore 18:20 I really am a sucker for dramas. Really, I feel like I'm just a dramatic person in general. So I like to get that up real quick. I have tried. I'm working on something that's supposed to be a comedy. But the more I think about it, the more I work on it, I'm like, "Oh, let's put this little piece of drama in here. Wait, no, this is supposed to be a comedy." As far as genre goes, I don't really stick to just one particular one. I like to try different things, and try different ways that I go about it. So, one is really ensemble-y, mysterious. And then one is like drama, obviously.
Taylore 19:08 Then, I really am into history stuff. Not so much ancient times, but there's this one musical that I really like. It's called "Hello, My Baby." It's not one that anybody really knows because it's kind of new. And this isn't how it works at all, but I was like, "I'm gonna write a screenplay of it." And that was fun too, because it's based in the 1920s. So yeah, I just do whatever except for sci-fi; I can't really get into writing sci-fi. I can watch it, but not really into the whole details of everything to write it.
Leah Jones 19:45 Yeah, I think sci-fi is particularly difficult because if you're doing a drama set in modern times or even historical fiction, it's not historical fiction, if it's -- a period piece screenplay -- you're not having to do the world-building of science fiction, which demands that you have a plan for the technology, or at least when you're doing something based in a period drama, and you're looking back, you still have to do research, but you don't have to create the items from scratch.
Taylore 20:26 Right, it's not up to you. You can go, "Well, what did it look like back then? What words did they use?" Yeah, science fiction, you have to make the dictionary, you have to do everything, which is so amazing. And I love that people can come up with that kind of stuff like "Harry Potter," "Star Wars." I've never seen "Star Wars". Don't kill me, but I've never seen "Star Wars." So, even then I'm sure that they have a dictionary, and stuff.
Leah Jones 20:55 So they do. I don't know if you like Nicole Byer, from "Nailed It?" So, she and Lauren Lapkus, who was the woman the lead in "The Wrong Missy with David Spade." So, they're comedians in L.A., and they do a podcast called "Newcomers." First season of "Newcomers" was them both watching "Star Wars "for the first time, and it was hysterical. I didn't even bother, I didn't rewatch any -- I've seen the movies; I think I've seen all of them. I am not someone who requires watching the movie to listen to a podcast about a movie. So, if you ever want to increase your Star Wars knowledge, I suggest including "Newcomers" in it.
Taylore 20:58 I will definitely listen to that. There's been a few times where I've been like, "Should I sit down and watch all of it?" Because from what I've heard, depending on who you ask, it's like, "What order do I watch these?" Some people will say, "Don't watch it like this -- you need to watch it this way." And the fourth one is first, and whatever, so it's very confusing.
Leah Jones 22:21 Yeah, there's like the machete cut, which is, yeah, all that stuff.
Leah Jones 22:37 We're not just here to talk about the TV shows we have been watching and podcasts. We are here to also talk about some of your favorite things. So, what is the favorite thing that is risen to the top as you're thinking about things to talk about this afternoon?
Taylore 22:55 Have you talked about "Armchair Expert yet?"
Leah Jones 22:57 I have not.
Taylore 22:58 We can talk about Armchair Expert, cause I can talk about that forever.
Leah Jones 23:01 All right. Great. Let's do it. Like we said at the top of the show, Taylor and I know each other through an Armchair Expert fan group, and which you were, I believe -- so, the video came out from Ellen. And somebody posted it to the group and they were like, "Is she in here?" And somebody said, "I know her, I'll go get her," because I don't think you were in the group yet, and we recruited you, and said, "Tell us everything. How does he smell? What was it? How strong was he?" So that's how we met is you were on Ellen, and then we went looking for you.
Taylore 23:43 Yes. And fun fact -- I was in the group before, but then it was the very, very beginning of the group. And there was a lot of hate towards Monica in the beginning. I was like, "I'm not about this. I'm leaving," so I left. Yeah. And my friend Shawna, she's the one that was like, "I know her. I'll go get her." She texted me and was like, "Did you see it?" And I was like, "Did I see what?" it was like, "In the Armchair Expert group?" I was like, "Oh, I'm not in the group." She's like, "I'll get you on. Come on. I'll get you in." And then, I saw the video posted in there.
Leah Jones 24:18 Yeah, yeah. Cause it was early in the group -- before I learned, was before I made, I really locked that group down. People have to answer questions. And I just made the rule, I was like, "I just want this to be a nice area of the internet." And yeah, there's a difference between critique and just hate-listening and stuff. So, it did take a while to get the vibe of the group to the right --
Taylore 24:47 -- to the place where it is now?
Leah Jones 24:48 Yeah, yeah. So, did you know about Dax Shepard before the podcast came out?
Taylore 24:48 I did. Because I remember watching I can't remember if it was "Employee of the Month," or "Zathura" that I had seen first, but either way, I remember watching those movies when I was younger. I was in third grade, and they had this after-school day program that you would go to if your parents couldn't come pick you up at three o'clock. And we used to watch that in there, so I remember seeing him there. And "Employee of the Month," my parents are fans of David Cook from American Idol, and I was a fan of him. Okay, so they said, "Hey, we're watching this movie with Dane Cook in it." So, I thought David Cook, and I was wrong, but I knew him from there too. And I had watched "Parenthood."
Leah Jones 25:46 So, you knew who he was as an actor, and then, were you a podcast person? Or was this the podcast that got you into podcasts?
Taylore 25:57 This was the first podcast I ever listened to. I wasn't at the very beginning; I did not listen from day one. I started listening at Mae Whitman's episode, because I love Mae Whitman. I"ll listen and watch anything she's in.
Leah Jones 26:14 And Mae Whitman was amazing inParenthood, she's such an incredible actor. They had a particularly lovely interview when she was on.
Taylore 26:17 Oh, yeah, and that's what got me hooked. Because I think my favorite two characters from "Parenthood" were Crosby and Amber, so when I saw that they had kind of a reunion. I was like, "Oh, I'm all about this." And there was just some kind of spark and I loved it, and then I went back and listened from the very beginning.
Leah Jones 26:45 Okay, so you go back and listen to the very beginning. What were some other standout interviews, or moments kind of early when you were listening, that kept you coming back?
Taylore 26:58 Well, for the first episode that I listened to, for Mae Whitman, it was more, so I loved them so much, and I just wanted to listen. Then there was something about the way --obviously, that Dax communicates with people that I was kind of catching on to. But then when I went back, the first episode, listening to him and Kristen, then I was really like -- "Oh!" And I come from a very traumatic childhood; I was not given the tools to communicate. At that time in my life, I was definitely in a very dark place, and I didn't know how to get out of that place. So ,when I found the podcast, and I have this human being who knows how to communicate and has been through a lot of the same things that I went through? It became more than just entertainment. For me, it was more like I'm learning how to be a good human being, or at least a better human being that what I have been and what I came from.
Leah Jones 28:03 Because especially, I think it can be hard for people that maybe came to the podcast, late -- you know, you can start with any episode. But those early episodes, maybe the first six months, first year, especially where it's still very raw, and he's still trying to figure out how to do an interview, what to share. He brings a lot to the podcast of talking about past traumas, how we work through them, how relationships changed over time, closure he's gotten, closure he hasn't gotten. So for you, it was giving you access some to some tools you didn't have.
Taylore 28:49 Yeah, exactly. And, this is shameful for me too, because I wouldn't listen to any of the other episodes. In the beginning, I would just skip to the people that I knew. But eventually I would go back and I remember listening to David Harbour, cause I love "Stranger Things," obviously. That one is one that I've listened to a lot, multiple times going back, just the way that he talked about mental health and addiction really stuck with me. And it was the first time I've ever heard people talk about this at all. Because from where I'm from, you don't talk about those personal things, or you don't talk about the darkness and all of that -- you just shut up about it and keep it to yourself. So to hear celebrities, but just anyone in general, talk about these things so open openly to millions of people, right? I was like, "Oh my gosh, I'm not losing my mind. I'm not crazy."
Leah Jones 29:55 Yeah, there's a lot of -- power, power might be the wrong word -- but strength that you can gather by sharing stories or by hearing stories, and hearing your own life reflected back in the stories of others. So. you know, they got through it, so you can also get through it.
Taylore 30:19 Exactly. And I talked about this with him on the Ellen video. I do not have a good relationship with my dad, whatsoever. And so for me, I don't really remember what point in my listening, this kind of switched on for me, but Dax really became this father figure that I never had. Because throughout my entire life, I was afraid of men. I didn't want to talk to men; I didn't want anything to do with men. I didn't even want to be in the same room as a man. So, that I was listening to a man's podcast -- which Monica was there, just in the beginning, she wasn't really as vocal. So, I didn't latch on to her as quickly as I did with Dax.
Leah Jones 31:09 Yeah, she was always much more, almost like Rob as a silent producer, and she came in for the fact check. But her participation in interviews has certainly increased.
Taylore 31:24 Which I love. And I love Monica. But I tell this all the time -- I have so many strong women in my life, I just didn't have a strong male figure to look at, at all. And so, Dax became that father figure for me, and it changed everything.
Leah Jones 31:43 Are there things it that helped you change that you talk about?
Taylore 31:48 Yeah, I've definitely had a addictive personality throughout my entire life. I'm an addict -- that's what it is. I don't know why I tiptoed around that. So, whenever he was talking about the things that he went through, I could see that in myself. And it kind of took me back for a second. I remember, I stopped listening for a while, because I was like, "This is too much -- I don't want to face this yet." And then, I went back, and it taught me about how to go about dealing with that, and confronting it. And also communication, because I was a very, very angry person, and I held on to a lot of resentment. I didn't know how to communicate with the people around me.
Taylore 32:44 Back then, I would not have ever been able to say, "Hold on a sec, I'm triggered right now -- I need to go and figure out why I'm feeling this way, and then we can come back to this." I would just probably slam a few doors and feel really good about it? So, it definitely taught me a lot. And the experts teach you a lot, too. I had no idea about the ACE [Adverse Childhood Experiences] scores and all of that. So ,when I found out about that, that changed a lot for me. Because my number's pretty up there. So I was like, "All right, cool. Maybe this is something we should look into."
Leah Jones 33:25 So that's the Adverse Childhood Effect score, I think, or events, experiences.
Taylore 33:33 Experiences? It's an E-word.
Leah Jones 33:37 I'll link to this episode because it was eye-opening, I think for everyone. And now, last week on TikTok, on my corner of TikTok -- I know that doesn't mean it's everyone's TikTok -- people learning about, people who have never heard about it, seeing someone talk about it, and then they go do the score, and they're like, "Holy shit, mine's a 6,7,8, 9." So, what it does, is you do this quiz and it's about -- In your childhood, did you ever experience hunger, abuse, it's all these different adverse effects. Because these events, these traumatic events in your childhood, as an adult, impact your health, they impact your mental health, they impact your physical health. And if you know your score, you can start doing some work to resolve that trauma, essentially.
Taylore 34:40 And also, what percentage are you more likely to be an addict are more likely to experience this, blah, blah, blah? Like I that was all I talked about for six months. I'd be like, "What's your ACE score? Do you want to find out what your ACE score is?"
Leah Jones 35:01 You weren't interested in people's astrology, "I don't care if you're an Aries, or a Leo, but I do need to know your ACE score and exactly what went into that."
Taylore 35:10 Exactly. I don't care about you being a Sagittarius; we might find more in common if we know what each other's ACE score is. So, that's all I talked about. I'm pretty sure a few episodes of my podcast, maybe I have one my first season. My second season, I know I brought it up to everybody. So, it definitely made a big impact on me. And I think that one in particular stood out a lot to me, because I had gone and -- how do I explain this? -- I had been going with the mindset that there was something wrong with me, and it was my fault. And I did all of this stuff because I was broken. But then when that came on, it's like, "No, it there's a lot more to that than what you think." And it wasn't necessarily me being like, "Oh, it's all my parents fault," but I knew that I was the way I was because of however many factors. Yeah, and that I was like, "Oh, cool. So it's not all me."
Leah Jones 36:24 I think that it's such a big realization for people to come to. And it's a scary one, because even people who had "good childhoods" can look at that list and be like, "Oh, well, there were a couple of things that happened." And those can be resolved, too, but I think it's really powerful. And I hope that it becomes more normalized and primary care physicians -- that should be a vital sign.
Taylore 37:10 Yeah, I recently went to my doctor, and they had, it wasn't the ACE test, but it was those kind of questions. I felt so grateful that they were there. I was like, "Oh, thank you. Thank you for asking me."
Leah Jones 37:25 Are there other -- I think for me, that "Monica and Jess Love Boys," where they talk to dating experts and -- Esther Parral, she comes to mind right away for me. A podcaster that -- well, she's more than a podcaster -- I feel like I've learned a lot from but are there other experts that also pop up for you, when you think about ones that sent you down research rabbit holes or held a mirror to you that helped you see something?
Taylore 38:07 Yes, I don't remember if Glennon Doyle was considered an expert or not, but her episode, I think a lot of people resonated -- that resonated with them. Glennon Doyle, I'm also not sure if Brene Brown was considered an expert, but I was like, "Oh, I love them both." And of course, now that you asked me, I'm blanking on all of them.
Leah Jones 38:31 Amnesia that comes with these types of questions. I get it, too.
Taylore 38:34 I loved on "Monica and Jess" when they brought Kristen and Dax's therapist in. Because I've never been in a place where I could want to afford to go to therapy; that was never in the cards for me. So, getting to experience it through "Armchair Expert,"or all of these experts, anything that has to do with any kind of therapy. Susan Burton, her episode? I've just showed that to five people. Like, "You have to listen to Susan Burton."
Leah Jones 39:11 I don't know if I remember her episode.
Taylore 39:13 Her episode, she's the one that does a new way of life. I think she was incarcerated for a while. My mom was in jail for a little bit in my childhood, and goes along with the ACE score, but I was kind of like, "So what? That has nothing to do with how I am now." And then you come to find out, "It kind of did, just a little bit."
Leah Jones 39:53 It's interesting to me, because I grew up around a lot of people who had gotten sober. And my parents were the parents who kept, they literally had a case of the book, "When Bad Things Happen to Good People," which is not WHY bad things happen to good people, it's WHEN bad things happen to good people. Because no matter how good you are, you will eventually experience heartbreak or loss, or something tragic. And that was part of my parents arsenal of supporting their friends -- we just had a box of that book that my parents would give to people when bad things happened.
Leah Jones 40:42 Now I realize, that is not something that all parents do. But really nice to have grown up seeing that and seeing -- our parents realized early that the types of trauma that they had experienced and made a decision to break the cycles of abuse from their families with us kids. So, they went to therapy, and they got help, so that they could do better by us than their parents did. For them.
Taylore 41:15 Good for them, though.
Leah Jones 41:20 We're so lucky, and I'm so grateful. I'm not going to be like Dax and push you to become a parent, but that you have this interaction with this podcast that has helped you start doing some healing and start to see what -- should you choose to have kids in your life, you will be able to lower their ACE score, because you'll know about it. And you will have the chance to learn these things that maybe your parents didn't have access to, this kind of stuff.
Taylore 41:51 Exactly. I mean, that's what I tell people all the time. I forget, I have this deep quote that I'll tell people if I'm really sad or something. It's basically, the hero and the villain story -- their origin story is the same thing. Just, the way that they go is the path they choose. So, they both normally have this horrible past where something traumatic is going on, but then they get to choose which way they want to go -- if they want to be a hero, or if they want to be a villain -- that's the big difference there.
Taylore 42:27 I definitely think that you can choose -- like you said, your parents, how they decided to break that cycle of abuse -- they very well could have just been, "Well, it's too hard. I'm just gonna be a villain now, an evil person or whatever." And it's sad to look back on the people like my dad, who came from that cycle, and just decided not to break it, or didn't have the tools to know how to break it. Because then you have compassion for these people, which is hard.
Leah Jones 43:13 What about on the more celebrity kind of -- do you enjoy the kind of more lighthearted, or, I don't want to say more shallow, that's not what I wanted to say. But, he does get deeply personal with people but they're not -- all the guests aren't as revealing maybe as a David Harbour or who was that Texas DJ?
Taylore 43:45 Gordon Keith.
Leah Jones 43:46 Gordon Keith. Everyone's not sharing at that level. Do you care for the episodes with lighter celebrity content?
Taylore 43:56 Yes, I feel like I'm the person that I know have never hated a movie, I've never hated a person for just being a person or whatever. I'm not one of those people who goes online and is like, "Oh my gosh, I hate this person." So, I will listen to every single episode. I love all of the episodes. I can't really think of one that sticks out to me; there hasn't been one where I was kind of wary about listening to because I was like, "Hmmmm." So, I love them all. I do remember, I didn't know much about Amy Schumer at the time, so I was like, "Am I gonna like this?" And I don't know why I even asked that, of course you're gonna like it. I love that one, and the recent ones.
Leah Jones 44:47 That's one where didn't they -- they recorded in her apartment in New York? Yeah.
Taylore 44:55 And something was said between them where they thought it got off, like they left it kind of rocky. And then in the fact check I think he said that they went back and had a talk, and everything was fine. Which I guess that, that is a deep one.
Leah Jones 45:12 And then do you feel like you've been able to keep up with the -- all of the offshoots with -- there's the conspiracy alien one, there's the Kristen Bell and Marcus have their new one. Which one were you saying?
Taylore 45:31 Nurture versus --
Leah Jones 45:33 -- with Wendy Mogel? Do you keep up with all the branches of the tree?
Taylore 45:41 I did really good. Whenever I was delivering pizza, because that's all I did. I feel like after a while I kind of got burnt out on music. I'm like, "Okay, here we go, same song again." Which is really weird to say because I normally don't, so I listened Armchair Expert, because those are new, you just listen to a new one. And when you're working eight hour shifts, those things they fly by. I was at the point where I was like, "I don't have anything else to listen to, I'm going to start a few new podcasts." But now, I am so behind. I can't remember the last one. Usually, I don't know if this is how my brain works, but I've never skipped an episode to listen to a new one. I have to go in order.
Taylore 46:33 So, I actually started skipping around because I was like, "I want to listen to Matt Damon's." I know that I have not listened to any "Nurture Versus Nurture." But I did skip around and listened to some of "We Are Supported By." And I listened to something that was very recent, but I have to go back and catch up that way, too. Yeah, so it's been it's been hard to listen, now that I'm not doing anything I'm just saying, right?
Leah Jones 47:10 Yeah, and when you're home, you can be writing, or you can be watching TV, which are two things you can't do when you're in your
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