Patty Morrissey, a New York-based coach and master Kon Mari consultant, loves to go thrifting on Long Island. She grew up thrifting and garage sale-ing with her grandparents and still goes to the same shops today. She's also a Kon Mari consulant and coach who knows a thing or two about how to help people find what sparks joy. (In fact, she's in my house helping me organize during the pandemic thaw).

Keep up with Patty on Instagram as @pattymorrissey and @clearcultivate, then head over to her website to learn about Cultivate Club for 2022

Follow @findingfavspod on Instagram and Twitter. Rate and review on Apple Podcasts

Show Links

• Wild Chicago
• Mac N Cheese Productions
• Holiday House
• Rosie's Vintage Store
• Disney Bound
• Fringe Co Caftan

Transcript Follows

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Patty  0:01   Hi, my name is Patty Morrissey and my favorite thing is shopping at thrift stores.

Announcer  0:26   Welcome to the Finding Favorites podcast where we explore your favorite things without using an algorithm. Here's your host, Leah Jones.

Leah Jones  0:29   Hello, and welcome to Finding Favorites. It's Sunday, November 21st. And then a hilarious, strange, wonderful world that I live in. I recorded this week's episode on Monday night with my dear friend, Patti Morrissey. In it, we joked about her coming to Chicago to help me organize. She texted me later and said, "What if I come on Saturday?" So Patty came to town yesterday, and has been helping me organize my house to get ready for the rest of chemo, getting my life set up, kind of a good reset as I head into the next 10 weeks of chemotherapy.

Leah Jones  1:06   It's been very funny this evening to step away from a friend to edit a conversation you had with that friend earlier in the week. Taking time out of precious in-person hours to do a digital task related to being with that same friend. So I will keep this introduction short, and let you enjoy Patti Morrissey and I talking about thrifting, and all the work that she does as both KonMari consultant and the owner of Clear and Cultivate, the Cultivate club, though there will be links to everything. She's based in New York, but the internet means she can be everywhere. And airplanes mean she can also be everywhere.

Leah Jones  1:53   I'm really grateful, again, to the support of my friends and my family this week, second week of chemotherapy. I got acupuncture, I slept for four hours, I came home and got a lot of energy from the steroids. So, I went to the car wash on Friday night, which is a normal thing to do after chemotherapy, I don't know. I still have my hair; I'm anticipating it coming out this week. So take care of yourselves, have a great Thanksgiving. If you got a 20 pound bird, take it out of the freezer. You got to start thawing now, if you're going to be able to cook it safely on Thursday. Wear your mask, wash your hands, and keep enjoying your favorite things.

Leah Jones  2:56   Hello, and welcome to Finding Favorites. I'm your host, Leah Jones. And this is the podcast where we learn about people's favorite things and we get recommendations without using an algorithm. I am joined tonight by my dear friend, Patti Morrissey. Patti is the founder and head coach of Clear and Cultivate. They facilitate fresh starts -- they have the Cultivate Club, declutter parties, training and coaching. I brag about Patty for a lot of things -- there's so many things. But I do appreciate the shine I get when I'm like, "Patti, she's Marie Kondo's go-to in the U.S." That's very fun to say. You're one of the very first certified Marie Kondo consultants in the United States and you have spoken -- there have been times when she hasn't been able to speak and they're like, "Patti, why don't you come to Hong Kong and give this presentation?" But, you do so much more than that, and I'm thrilled to have you here tonight. Patti, how are you doing?

Patty  4:03   I'm good. I'm good. I had a great Monday, reorganizing my basement, practicing what I preach, just hanging out. What was your Monday?

Leah Jones  4:17   My Monday -- it was very nap-oriented -- it wasn't my goal. I got up, I took a shower, I got to my computer, I got through my morning meetings. And I was like, "I'll just rest my eyes for a moment." And then I rested my eyes in my recliner, and then I moved to my bed to rest my eyes for a couple more hours. So, now I have truly a lot of energy because I am well-rested.

Patty  4:49   Oh, good, good. Well, one of the things, one of the primary questions in my coaching programs, especially in Cultivate Club, is we're always asking ourselves "What's true right now?" It's kind of living improvisationally. Because improv does not go very well when you have a scene in your head you want to play out, you have to take the moment as it comes. By asking ourselves constantly, "What's true right now in this season of my life?" But what's true right now for me in this moment -- "I'm tired, I don't have the energy I thought I was going to have, I'm going to lay down and rest and see what happens." I needed the rest, it turns out, and I took it. And life is so much kinder to us when we operate that way. Yeah.

Leah Jones  5:47   It's true. It is. It happened this weekend; I was on the phone with a friend, and she was like, "I can tell you're falling asleep." I was like, "Am I?" and she was like, "Yes, goodbye." So I'm getting better about actually taking the naps instead of powering through, which is a big life lesson, for sure. Something you did today, is you had a "no-meeting Monday," which I'm just really curious about. I saw it on your Instagram.

Patty  6:26   Yes. No-meeting Mondays. Every now and then something comes up, and I'll take a meeting on a Monday. But I like to start -- I like my Monday to to occur without any obligations on the schedule, especially in the morning. We have a date right now, we had a meeting on a Monday. This is very much something I was looking forward to and knew that by the time it rolled around, I'd be ready to engage. No-meeting Mondays for me are just what it sounds like, I don't want myself scheduled anything. So I have this expansive time period to really think and be and plot out my life, pursue whatever is calling me that day. And, they're really joyful, so every Sunday night, I'm happy because there's no meetings looming waiting for me on Monday.

Leah Jones  7:27   You don't have the Sunday scaries.

Patty  7:29   There are no Sunday scaries, and for me, and maybe it's because I'm a little bit scatterbrained at times, or it's kind of the season of my life of being a parent where your attention is divided by my needs and my daughter's needs. Sunday night is sometimes a lot of scrambling around backpacks and take a shower and do I have lunch to have lunch meat and all that, and so sometimes I don't always get around to taking a look at my schedule and really getting a grip on what the week involves ahead. So, I know that Monday is going to be my little cushion.

Leah Jones  8:08   That's so pleasant. So pleasant, you've got a beautiful Zoom background even though we're not on Zoom, you've got your banner for the Cultivate Club. I had the honor of being a guest at Cultivate Club to introduce folks to some of the traditions of Shabbat -- lighting candles and blessing the wine and blessing the challah, blessing the bread --and I know that you are kind of ... like applications are open or you're recruiting for Cultivate Club. What is Cultivate Club about?

Patty  8:45   Yeah, so Cultivate Club is a really a combination of everything I've ever done. I have this  eclectic professional background. Always wanted to change the world, always interested in self-improvement, community, collective betterment, making a difference. And "doing well by doing good" is a common thread through all that I've done. So Cultivate Club is a year-long personal development experience that we do in groups. It's kind of like a self-care sorority of getting together with like-minded women, although we have some men already who are requesting to join and we're letting them in to join us.

Patty  9:33   Instead of starting the year off with these grandiose proclamations and then having it fail three weeks in, we commit to a year of practice, and we bite off one thing at a time. Every month we have a different theme, and they build on one another. The first month, we focus on self; then we focus on body and our relationship with time; the next month money, creativity. And each month, we ask ourselves, "What's true right now? What do I need to clear? What do I need to cultivate? Who do I need to connect with? And what am I celebrating?"

Patty  10:13   We have some core practices that we do around some of those things, and people take what they need from it. It's very much a program that people customize to their own situation. We are wrapping up our very first year of Cultivate Club and excited to see that people are signing up again for a second year. Someone said that it's almost like a spiritual practice where it's the same practices, but you keep coming through them as a different person each time.

Leah Jones  10:51   There's a type of learning in Judaism called Musar, which are different virtues and values. And Judaism has a practice of -- we read the Torah, every year -- you keep spiraling back to the same concept every year, and you bring something new to the Torah. And Musar is a study of different virtues where for one month, you might study in a group, one particular virtue. I took an intro to Musar class a few years ago, and I was like, "Oh, my gosh, I've got to do this." And then, life happened. But I think it's such a valuable practice, especially if you've got the people that you're talking to regularly and and everyone's committed to showing up.

Patty  11:50   Right. So, that's what we all have in common. And I think there are not a lot of places to get this. Either people have, they all are in the same faith, or they're all recovering from something very similar, whether it's in addiction or an illness or a life situation. There's more diversity in our groups in that way of life, people in from all over the world. I have clients in Australia and Japan and all over the US, a bunch of people from Germany and UK signed up for this next round. From the presentation that you did with us, I didn't even realize how diverse our group was until we had that event. We had Mormons in the room and people who were leaving the Mormon church, we had people who were kind of questioning non-believers, we had Buddhists, and it was really amazing to see. But here we are all working together, on our own individual path of personal development in this group together. It's really cool.

Leah Jones  13:08   I used to take a writing class in Chicago, Kim Clark was the teacher. He has since passed on, but in his first class with people he would say,"You're not allowed to ask each other what you do. You have to get to know each other through your writing, you have to get to know, but what do you spend your day doing is not the question you're allowed to ask." And I think Cultivate Club, you're in a situation where "What's your religion?" isn't the question people are going to ask. I thought it was super interesting that you had -- it seemed like people finding out that they were very different places. For whatever reason, the Mormon church stood out to me because it's the one I know the least about, but that there were people who were active within their family, some had come and some had gone and but, it didn't turn into a fight. It didn't become disrespectful, nobody tried to convince anybody they were wrong. I thought that was really powerful to be in the room for

Patty  14:19   It's almost, I spent a lot of my time in the Club. And now that the world is thawing out a little bit with COVID and we're starting to reconnect with people, I'm realizing what a special environment I've created -- not just for myself. What we're trying to do is not just get along with one another, but really create a template experience of what we should expect when we spend time with other people. This is what it feels like to be heard and seen and loved for who you are and respect everybody else's path, but hold our own at the same time. We're all engaging with our families and our friendship circles and our workplaces differently as a result of this experiences here. That's wonderful.

Leah Jones  15:14   Wonderful. And it does seem like such it makes sense --  the things that I have done in your house, or you used to have this little workshop space in Uptown. I think that's where one of the places where we met for the first time. I don't remember what the event was, but I do remember there was a PBS host there, but just being a regular dude. Like from "Wild Chicago" or something?.

Patty  15:51   Why am I blanking on his name? It's --

Leah Jones  15:55   -- he feels like a Steve to me.

Patty  15:57   No, it was "Wild Chicago" is the show that he used to be on. I forgot that he was there, but we did do work together. I had a business right after grad school called "Full Circle." It was all about helping groups come together through service. One of my networking tools was this event called "Full Circle Forum" where I would just invite all the people that I've met, because you can only have so much coffee before it becomes your full-time job. So when I met someone cool, I would add them to the Full Circle Forum list. I'd have some kind of discussion prompt or a speaker -- you were the speaker, talking about social media --  and we got a great group of people together. We were in this art space, and the suggested donation went to support the art space in Uptown.

Leah Jones  16:51   And then in Chicago, you would host these legendary -- January 1, possibly January 2 -- vision board parties that people would show up with magazines and paper and scissors, and cover every square inch of your apartment making their vision boards for the coming year. Which was always wonderful. I maybe only went two or three times, but it feels like I went forever.

Patty  17:25   I love that event. I want to get back to that woman who hosted those events to some extent, because when I was doing them then -- I don't know how old I was younger. And it was okay that I lived in this like shabby-chic apartment and asked everyone to have a potluck, and it was very casual. Maybe it's partly the move to New York, partly my age, I'm supposed to be a certain status and all these shoulds that we do to ourselves, I've realized they've really made me feel a little bit isolated. Because people have an expectation, if you're successful, you're supposed to live in a house that looks like this. If you are a Marie Kondo consultant, you're supposed to have your home set up in a certain way. And my joy is mine. I've realized, I guess with I don't know, awareness, maturity, but also fear, "Wow, the expectations have changed." And I do live in this reality. There is a little bit of a double bind here. I want to be open but also I need to protect myself from from judgment. So I'm a little bit more protective over who I let inside my life,

Leah Jones  18:55   Yeah, I get that. I get that.

Patty  18:59   But the vision boards are still -- I'm staring at my vision board right now -- a really important tool to help us connect with what we really desire. When I facilitate vision board parties, what people are surprised by is always the instruction not to put on the board what you think you should, but to allow yourself to just trust that whatever is resonating with you, is what is yours to put on your board when you're going through the images? So my boards often -- I'm like, "I don't know what that is. Yeah, we'll find out."

Leah Jones  19:40   There are definitely times when I'm flipping through magazines, and I'm like, "Oh, that's great, what's that?" I'll never -- no, never is too strong -- I try not to go into it with a too strong of an agenda. But I might say, "I'm looking for travel pictures, but not I'm looking for a mountain. I'm looking for Mount Kilimanjaro -- no, I'm looking for travel. Or I'm looking for romance pictures. I'm looking for cozy pictures. And then you just see what happens.

Patty  20:17   Because you have this little nudge that says, "I'm curious about that," and you follow that

Unknown Speaker  20:27   There's a request from Cultivate Club for me to host one, so I might do it for Cultivate Club, and you're welcome to join us. Also Saya Hillman of Mac and Cheese Productions has a blueprint board workshop. She's doing a January one, and she facilitates it very well. She brings up all these questions that prime you before you --  although her approach is a little different, her approach is to have a goal in mind.  Use the images to reflect the steps that it's going to take to get there.

Leah Jones  21:17   Well, I know that in talking about what you do with your time, we have touched on some of your favorite things. But what is the favorite thing we're going to talk about today?

Patty  21:29   I don't know. This is such an open-ended thought.  What should we focus on? My favorite thing --

Leah Jones  21:36   -- so it can be a hobby you love, a book you love ...

Patty  21:45   One of my favorite things at the moment that I really struggle with, because it's a little bit like an addiction, and it's very joyful. I am trying to parse together, what's the joy and what's the compulsion? I am addicted to thrift store shopping. I love vintage sweaters, so that's what I'm into. That's one of my favorite things right now; i don't know if that's what we want to talk about.

Leah Jones  22:24   Let's start there. Have you always been a thrift store person, or is this a newer thing?  I find I love the idea of a thrift store, I will donate to thrift stores. I don't have the hunter gene it takes to be successful at thrift stores. So when did you know -- when did thrift stores become a place that you found were successful shopping?

Patty  23:00   Kind of always. So I live in Huntington, and my grandparents, who I was very close to, lived in Huntington, as well. I grew up in the town over. They were very frugal people, but invested in the right things. They paid for me to go to college and high-quality summer camps, that kind of thing. We would go to garage sales together. It's a wealthy area, there's a lot of great, garage sales to go to. And this local thrift store, The Holiday House, my grandmother would take me there. And I have memories -- the building is a totally different building; it's newer now, it's this little gem of a thrift store. All the money goes to support this summer camp, so the thrift store shuts down during the summer. And it brings in girls from I guess New York City who otherwise couldn't afford to go to a country kind of summer camp. It's cool to think that all of your money is going to support this organization.

Patty  24:14    I really love that everything I'm buying is given a second or third chance at life. I love that I can make purchases without the commitment-- "Let's try it, it's only two bucks." It doesn't work out, I'll donate it right back. Definitely the hunter-gatherer thing.

Patty  24:39   That's the addiction part, that I kind of watch out form but with the Marie Kondo stuff, I've got I have a more discerning eye. I kind of know exactly what I'm looking for. I guess it started in childhood with these like warm and fuzzy feelings with my grandparents.

Leah Jones  25:00   Going garage sale-ing, going to this particular thrift store you still go to as an adult.

Patty  25:06   aAd I still go there. I don't go to the the mega thrift stores occasionally, I like the savers and the Goodwills, occasionally I'll have a good time in those places. Usually it's better if I am looking for something specific.There's two small ones that I go to here in Huntington that both my grandparents took me to, and it's like walking into a boutique. It's tiny and they curate the selection really well. So it's fun.

Leah Jones  25:40   You have been, I happen to know, in a micro-season of sequins lately, right? Are you able to find the shiny things at thrift stores? Or is that more something you have to go to a non-thrift store?

Patty  26:04   I have a sequined top -- there's this little vintage store called Rosie's Vintage that's near me where I grabbed the sequined top. So I'm coming out of an era of being invisible -- of feeling like -- I never had a really great sense of style, and struggled with all that is packed in there. And we could pick that apart another time or later, if you want. For a long time, I was trying to go for this Steve Jobs-type uniform. That was my objective. "I just need to figure out what works for me, and try not to embarrass myself when it comes to getting dressed. Just have it be neutral." No one's commenting anything like, "You look so great." But also no one's like, "She doesn't belong here."

Patty  27:01   Which goes to my anxiety or especially when it comes to adulting. I once had a mentor, I said, "You know, I really need a stylist." She goes, "Yes, you do." And she actually paid for me to work with one. At the time, I was working at Groupon, where all the tech guys would wear whatever the hell they wanted, but because I was a woman, I wasn't allowed to do the same thing. When I wore my dream green track suit to work, I looked ridiculous, apparently. So, I struggled for a long time. And I was like, "Let me just, you know, wear the same thing every day." A lot of it was black. And my process of trying to figure out who I am, and I want to show up in the world and have what my another Cultivate Club speaker, Statia Savasuk, says, "inside-out congruency." And one of the tools that we use in Cultivate Club is this idea of the alter-ego.

Patty  28:09   I tapped into this -- so this is related to thrift store, I tapped into the power of the alter-ego, when my family went to Disney World. I was getting ready to write the minimalist guide to go into Disney World. And I thought, "Oh, I'd have this capsule wardrobe. I would have black, white, red with a little bit of polka dot to be a little bit Minnie Mouse," and that would be that. As I was researching, I stumbled upon this subculture of people that go Disney bounding -- do you know about this?

Leah Jones  28:44   This is where you create an outfit that is inspired, because adults aren't allowed to wear costumes to Disney, right? So this is like, "I'm gonna wear a purple suit, and I'm going as the Genie or I'm going," -- you explain it better.

Patty  28:44   You nod to the character that -- the most famous Disney Bounder is John Stamos and his wife.

Leah Jones  29:16   Really. I had no idea.

Patty  29:20   Yes. She's way into this, and I think she dragged him into it, I'm not sure. So if you're going to dress up as Ariel like I did, you'd wear a green skirt and a purple top and a red scarf. I had a little necklace that had a shell on it.I dressed up as Alice, and wore a white skirt and a jean jacket and a black bow. I discovered this, and it sparked so much joy in me and I did not want to acknowledge it. Because it was not on brand for the minimalists Konmari consultant to be into this.

Patty  30:04   But the Konmari method also taught me what joy is supposed to feel like in my body. I was like, "This is genuine joy." So, I went thrift shopping like a madwoman and got to buy all these really little cool things that you see at the thrift store that I would never wear in my regular life. I bought this necklace -- it's a long necklace with a clock on it, so it's like the White Rabbit. And I bought a ring with an owl on it, and it was kind of like Aurora from "Sleeping Beauty." These different characters and -- my husband at the time was kind of game to play along, which is nice. My daughter was six, so she was way into it. My wardrobe tripled. I brought five suitcases to Disney world. We had two outfit changes a day -- it was the most absurd thing ever. But what it also taught me was -- so when I was walking around Disney World, and when you're in Disney, you're walking like 15 miles a day. And I was wearing a miniskirt with polka dots and wedge heels -- red and white wedge heels -- really dressed up. I was fine, and I also felt like I could, because I wasn't acting like Patty, I was acting like Minnie Mouse, and this is what Minnie Mouse would do in Disney World. Disney World is filled with a bunch of dorks who are like into it with me.

Patty  31:41   But when you're trying to try on a personality out in the world, the stakes are too high. So ,when I want to experiment with well, "Who is Patty and how does she show up in the world?" That's really hard to do, to step outside of your little box of what people know you for. I was a very granola kind of woman -- had a job in New York City and I would wear Chaco sandals to the office, which they're cool now, Tivos and Chacos. But at the time, an office mate of mine was like, "Wow, that's brave of you to wear those to the

Leah Jones  32:18   No.

Patty  32:20   And I was like, "I don't care, I'm not that person". Anyway, so I created this alter-ego of Sylvia. That's her name, she's about 75 years old, and she has this really wild sense of style, and she gives no fucks, but she's totally kind and great with kids and curses sometimes, but this is who I really am. I can use Sylvia in moments where there's a discrepancy between Patty and Sylvia, and say, "Well, this is what Sylvia would do." And it's not just about the clothes, but it's about the behavior behind it and the embodiment of the clothes.  So I was trying to learn how to swim, because that's what 75-year-old ladies do. They go wade in the water at the beach with a swim cap.

Patty  33:21   So, I have this neon green, sporty bikini thing. And I am learning how to swim --  I wasn't that confident at it at the time. And I was embarrassed to go swim in front of all these people the beach in the really shallow water next to the three-year-olds. It was like, "This is what Sylvia would do. She would just go in there and do her laps and float around."  So it's been life-changing with -- Sylvia does wear a lot of sequins. Today at the thrift store -- this is why this  probably came up. I dropped off some donations, and then of course, I had to go check to see what's there. So I bought a gold top with black polka dots. And the arms are kind of -- it looks like a flying squirrel, the arms are kind of attached. Very cool. I'm into it. I did a little joy jig in the dressing room at the thrift store -- "I have to have this." It's been it's been a fun way to experiment. That's why I really enjoy it.

Leah Jones  34:33   Yeah, I did just buy a sequined caftan-- a rose gold,  big sequins -- they're like an inch, big ones from French and Company in New Orleans. It's a brand I found out about on TikTok, so not thrifted, because you can't find you know, 5x thrifted sequined caftans. But I sent it to my friend, Amy, and I was like, "Is this too much for my Hanukkah party?" For my last chemo, I'm buying a sequined caftan to wear to my final chemo. I bought it, and it'll be here this week.

Patty  35:22   A friend of a friend of mine, he's a creative director -- he just had his 40th birthday. And it was a caftan party. Everyone had to wear one -- his was all sequins -- that's so cool.

Leah Jones  35:35   This company -- half the models on their page are men. A lot of my friends are starting to get into caftans this year.

Patty  35:44   I have a collection going. . So my daughter Vivian; I'm into vintage nightgowns, too. Also, I live in this compartmentalized life where like, my boyfriend lives at his house and I live in my house, and it's Patty's world over here. Not that I would change my behavior for him, but I have a different alter-ego for him. Let's just say that, right? The alter-ego at my house is like grandmother.

Patty  36:21   So, I'm wearing these long nightgowns. This one was a little silky, sometimes they're flannel, and I put on this vintage robe. And I'm like, "This is what women are supposed to wear, instead of fighting against our bodies." It has this big ruffle, these puffy sleeves. It's a light-teal aqua blue, and it ties right around the waist. I felt like Marilyn Monroe in this robe. So I'm wearing this thing, and then when Vivian wakes up. Sorry, I'm dying -- when she wakes up this morning, she goes, "Mom, what are you wearing?!"

Leah Jones  36:59   Oh, she's so embarrassed.

Patty  37:02   She would not let me sit out by the bus with her this morning.

Leah Jones  37:09   [laughter] Oh, Viv.

Patty  37:20   But she's into it. Also today -- she's really into the '80s.  She thinks she should, she wishes, she feels like she should have been born in the '80s or born in the '70s, so that she was an '80s kid. And for Christmas, she asked for -- what are those -- one of those Michael Jackson red leather jackets, or '80s slouchy arm jackets. So there was one at this antique store. I bought that today for her for Christmas. Tt was like 50 bucks, you know, a used jacket, but it's very cool, very Viv.

Leah Jones  37:56   That's exciting. And she only wants to have grown up in the '80s, because she's growing up in the 20s. The neon colors are are brighter now, everything's a little bit safer than it was in the '80s. This is a good version of the '80s to be growing up in.

Patty  38:19   sSe was careful to tell me she's like, "I want '80s clothes for Christmas. But not like 'I Heart the '80s," like a mockery. She's like, "I want authentic '80s."

Leah Jones  38:35    My sister's oldest son has been wearing --  Rayne and I's vintage clothes from high school. And we're about out of -- there's not a lot of vintage stuff left in our childhood rooms because he's been wearing our authentic vintage '90s, '80s and '90s t-shirts and sweatshirts, because they're cut a little bit longer.I gave him my letter jacket this summer, but I think he did just order his own.

Patty  39:10   Okay, that's on my list to order a varsity jacket for Cultivate Club. Right before I got on with you, I was ordering sweatshirts for the Club and I want 1990s Princess Diana crewneck sweatshirt with the curved letters, like a college sweatshirt that hangs down low, that you could wear bike shorts with.

Leah Jones  39:38   That'd be perfect.

Patty  39:42   Everyone has to have a little Diana in their alter-ego, I think.

Leah Jones  39:46   She's really having a moment lately. I don't know if there was something -- was there some sort of a unofficial cap. What is it -- there's like a musical? Is it that The Crown got the to the Diana years and now we're all obsessed with it?  Is it Megan and Harry and we want the real romance and wild story. I don't know what it is; I guess it's 25 years since she died. That must be why it's such a Diana moment right now.

Patty  40:28   I don't know what it is; I've had her on my Pinterest board for a little while now. Hailey Bieber, at least when it comes to the bike shorts and the big shirts, revived that look. But I had the Diana moment is bigger than that right now. Because I like the idea of the revenge dress.

Leah Jones  40:56   Yes. That's exactly what I was about to say. So my TikTok this weekend was 100% Taylor Swift, the"Red," re-recording? Which I don't listen to Taylor Swift -- I don't *not* listen to her -- I'm just not a Swiftie. I knew that her masters had been kind of unethically taken from her, and I knew she was re-recording her hits. I didn't know about Jake Gyllenhaal or any of that stuff. But at the premiere of the music video for the 10 minute song, or the movie that goes along with it, she essentially wore Diana's revenge dress. She wore a little black dress with the same neckline and the rhinestones here. So there was a lot of Tiktok commentary about Diana's revenge dress, Taylor essentially wearing it, doing this movie about Jake Gyllenhaal, the scarf. I know a lot about Taylor Swift for not being a fan.

Patty  42:11   Yeah, Viv and I are into it. We were listening to the album driving out to our friend's yesterday to help her organize her basement, that's my love language is organizing. I need to make a Chicago trip, and come hang out with you.

Patty  42:40   But, clothing is powerful. And I think that's one of the things -- I wasn't giving it enough credit. It's pretty easy to to dismiss it and people who love to throw things away, or even a lot of my colleagues in the professional organizing industry, or the KonMari consultant industry -- KonMari consultants are trained to be more sensitive to that. But the meaning and significance behind what we own and what we put on our bodies, it's not just about materialism. There's a much stronger connection there that people don't realize, until they have to start discarding it or they start to confront it.

Patty  43:29   I remember doing an organizing session once with this guy who was writing a story for a men's magazine -- "Men's Fitness" magazine. He only hired me because he had to for the story, and he was shocked at how personally connected he was to his clothes. He started. "Yeah, this one -- I went on a road trip in this, and this is from my first concert, and my ex-girlfriend really liked when I wore this one," and all of that.

Leah Jones  44:03   Yeah, there's a lot in it. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the organizing side of your business as people --like you said the world is thawing.  I truly have clothes gathering dust, because we've been home for a year-and-a-half, we've been home for two years. The clothes that I haven't put on my body in two years, because there was no reason --  there was nowhere to go -- there was no reason not to be in just sweats and comfy clothes and leggings. I got an a mystery box of -- something that Universal Standard does is occasionally they'll have mystery boxes. So I did a mystery box of dresses that I'm going to say arrived at my house on March 10th of 2020. Three beautiful dresses, and I was like, "Oh, well, I guess it might be a *couple* months before I get to wear these."

Patty  44:11   One of the things I did pretty early on in the pandemic -- and this is what I always do -- you're confronted with change, and this is what we practice in Cultivate Club; my methodology is -- when you're confronted with change, "What's true right now? What needs to be cleared?" The life I wanted to cultivate was --  I always want to be in right relationship with the moment -- and having a closet full of dresses that reminded me I used to get paid to speak on stage, and I used to go out to bars and go on dates -- it was upsetting to look at all of that. It wasn't supporting me in this moment, so I put them all in bins in the basement, which is something I would -- you know, that's not part of the Konmari method, the bin, put it away in a bin process.

Leah Jones  46:19   Wait and see if you need it later.

Patty  46:20   Not wait and see. I was like, "Listen, we're living in these weird times we have. I don't want to get rid of this stuff. I don't know what's coming next. I don't know who I'm becoming. I just have to take it one moment at a time. But the next moment, the moment I'm in right now, is asking for matching sweatsuits." And so I went and bought a few better lounge clothes, so that it could still feel good in the situation that I was in and didn't feel like I was in pajamas all day.

Leah Jones  46:54   Have something to change into -- that's important.

Patty  46:57   Exactly. It was key to have -- you still have to put on pajamas and still have to get dressed -- for me, that was an important moment.

Leah Jones  47:08   I *am* wearing daytime pajamas. I'm actually wearing a matching set of pink leopard print pants, and a pink shirt with a leopard print design on it. But, this is a daytime look.

Patty  47:25   With the world thawing out, I am curious about what's going to happen. What I think is going to happen is that people aren't going to care so much about what other people are doing. And the New York Times just had an article about, "Is denim having an identity crisis?" Because there's no consensus right now in the fashion world of what's cool. It's like, "Are bell-bottoms cool? Are these flared, cropped jeans cool? Are skinny jeans cool? Or high-waisted, low-waisted, baggy?" It's everything --

Leah Jones  48:05   -- everything's all over the place.

Patty  48:07   So, fashion is having a moment of really being a way to express your individuality, which is beautiful. But the article also highlighted there's a sadness to it, because there's no collective experience of, "Yeah, we're all doing this. We're all having this moment together." I went to a wedding on Thursday, and I was like, "I'm so excited to put on aheels, dance and wear a dress." I love who I get to be when I'm dressed up like that.

Patty  48:41   So I walk in there -- this is at a wine bar winery in Brooklyn -- and everybody is wearing black. And I'm like, "Oh my god, I missed a memo." I thought I had, but there was no memo everyone read. I started freaking out and asking some of the other guests, they're like no, "It's just New York." I was wearing a pink leopard dress --

Leah Jones  49:14   -- outstanding.

Patty  49:15   Which is probably, now that I look at it, probably not in season. I'm probably off -- I'm violating some fashion rule that maybe I'm supposed to wear that in the spring or the summer. But who gives a shit?

Leah Jones  49:28   It's probably your first in-person wedding in two years. Go -- dress up! Yeah, worth it. I don't think I've been to one yet, have I? I've been to like a number of Zoom weddings, but I haven't been to a good in-person wedding.

Patty  49:48   It was fun, and it was indoors -- and there was crowd pass and everything to make sure verything worked out with the vaccine. My sister did get married at the height of COVID, in August; it was outdoor at a farm, beautiful. She just lucked out and had the perfect day, so everyone could be socially distant. And I found a good dress for that one. That was fun.

Patty  49:54   Nice. Did Viv get your hunter-gatherer thrift store gene?

Patty  50:21   No. Sometimes she'll engage with me in the