E41 Interview With Rick Psonak

Ashlie 1: (00:17) Welcome back to another episode of Tactical Living by LEO Warriors on your host, Ashlie Walton.

Clint 3: And I’m your co-host Clint Walton.

Ashlie 1: In today's episode, Clint and I are not alone because we are joined by a very special guest by the name of Rick Psonak. Rick, how are you? So Rick, we asked you on our show because you told us a little bit about your background. We've known each other for some time now and I felt like I really wanted to give you a space to showcase a little bit about who you are. So I'll just dive in by sharing with the listener a little bit about your background myself and then we'll dive into some questions that allow really the world to get to know some of your story and how you've used your past to continue to benefit what I believe society as a whole. So a little bit about Rick.

Ashlie 1: (01:11)
Rick and I met in our Human Potential Institute Training. We are getting certified by uh, The Human Potential Institute and then potentially the ICF. We are coaches. And for Rick a little bit about things you've have shared with me about your background. Rick received his Bachelor of Science degree in orthotics and prosthetics from the University of Washington and he also went to Grad School for prosthetic and orthotic research from the University of Connecticut. Apart from that, in his journey, he has gone along the path to become the principal owner of a small Prosthetic business. They're laughing guys because that's probably the fifth time I've had a hard time pronouncing the word prosthetic… but he also specializes in microprocessors for prosthetic limbs in Jackson, Mississippi.

Ashlie 1: (02:07)
This this guy's background, we can go into talking about him starting a small silicon and manufacturing business that he's used for product development. He's also a business consultant and expert witness regarding issues concerning prosthetics. On top of that, he is a fellow of the American Academy of prosthetics and orthotics and he served two terms as a commissioner for the national commission of Orthotics and prosthetics education. If that wasn't enough. He has authored and coauthored chapters in textbooks and journals. In addition to that, Rick has also served in the United States army from 1974 to 1977 he is an ordained pastor. He is the cofounder coach and player of the sons of thunder basketball team and he's the founder of the epilogue life, which is a mission to be a resource and to set an example on how to thrive physically, spiritually, financially, and relationally as people age. That's quite a mouthful.

Rick 2: (03:12)
You made me sound better than I think I really am.

Ashlie 1: (03:16)
That's what I love about you, Rick. You had this humble way about you and I think that'll a lot of your history is very rich in the things that led you to be able to create this ability to serve other people. And if someone were to look at your biography, and of course this is from my, my point of view, I see this pattern of this continued desire and progression for being able to find ways to articulate your abilities to give back to other people. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

Rick 2: (03:52)
You know, I think growing up my mom was married five times and uh, and so at a very young age and so I grew up really trying to figure out what did it mean to be a man. And, uh, so I spent more time without a father than I did with the father. And, uh, I think that's part of it. Is this a journey? Trying to figure out what does that mean? What does it mean to be a man? And so I grew up in the inner city in Philadelphia. And so you had the street rats and you had athletes and you had all the different groups. And so I, I think it's just been a journey of figuring out what does it mean to be a person that, uh, has some sort of significance that has a sense of purpose and, and really the military was a big deal for me.

Rick 2: (04:43)
The only thing I knew about my dad is that he was in the army and, and I have pictures of him and my uncle who was also in the army. And so I thought maybe as, as I struggled through going to college and things like that, and I really was a terrible student, the only thing that I associated with being a man was being in the military. And so, uh, I guess as, as I think about the things I've done, it really goes back to that is that what does it mean to be a man, uh, to be a person that lives a life of significance. And, and certainly I've, over the years I've drawn a call it a correlation that being a person that lives a satisfied life somehow contributes to other people.

Clint 3: (05:25)
Right? So that's, that's amazing, you know, to really hear your story and to see what you've honed in on for your own past, uh, surrounding your journey and the military seems like it was huge for shaping you into what it was. And you went into the military at a hard time, you know, towards the end of the Vietnam War and just kind of gearing in towards that whole environment of, and Americana at that time, our, our country shifted within that point, within that timeframe from in the early seventies to where we are now. It's completely shifted. So did you actually serve in the Vietnam War?

Rick 2: (06:14)
No, I was at the very end of it. And so we were training as if, you know, something would still continue just like now with the Iraq war and uh, uh, it just seems like it's a never ending process. And so the same thing was going on at the time I was in is that there always seem to be some conflict. And so, and then I was in a combat unit that was, we were ready to go at any time. That was kind of our motto.

Clint 3: (06:41)
Hmm. So in that, I'm sure you saw a lot of soldiers coming back from the war within your youth at that time. You seen soldiers coming back from Vietnam, seeing what they were exposed to, seeing what they kind of were invested in and their injuries there, there PTSD now, now we know what it is. How did that articulate into what you've become and what you've done in your own life?

Rick 2: (07:11)
Yeah. You know, I think, I think in my life, my family had been through a lot of emotional trauma. And so I was really attuned to that. And of course, early like you were saying is that the post-traumatic stress that I don't even know if that word existed at that time, but you could see when you would deal with the soldiers coming back, there was something, there was something missing in their life. And, uh, and, and there wasn't, there weren't groups to, uh, help, uh, individuals develop a strategy. Now how, how do we go from in a jungle in a, in a territory that is nothing like where I grew up and under conditions that there's no, no, there's no practice to prepare you for that. I don't care what you do. And so you're, and these guys are 19, 20, 21 years old.

Rick 2: (08:04)
I mean these, you know, my son's 21 years old, I don't, he doesn't know where to catch up goes, you know, you don't know how to put that away. And so now we're telling these guys after they've seen people killed and they've been maned and psychologically they've had challenges and now go ahead. You're good luck. Have a good high five. And uh, and so yeah, you didn't take a psychiatrist to recognize that that was happening. And um, and so it is cool. And even now there, there are, uh, you know, certainly challenges, but it's cool to have an organization like what you guys are doing because post-traumatic stress exists all over the place. I mean, patients that I see that are in car accidents that lose limbs, they have post-traumatic stress. And of course, policemen, I lived, one of the things I did is I lived with a policeman for three or four. He was actually Tecta homicide detective. And so, uh, and I would watch him come home after the stress of, uh, of the day of life of a homicide detective and see, hey man, this is taxi.

Clint 3: (09:11)
No, and you're absolutely right. And, and to identify that its not just first responders, it's not just military veterans, it's anyone who goes through any type of traumatic incident within their lives has some form of PTSD and, and it's crazy to see that the response that our society has towards that nowadays one people over utilize it to the effect of trying to capitalize on it for disability or whatever else it may be. But there are also, it's do people who really need or under utilizing it because they don't want to label put on them.

Rick 2: (09:53)
Yeah.

Clint 3: (09:53)
Have you noticed that with say some of your clients that you've worked with with prosthetics?

Rick 2: (09:59)
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I worked on military base for a couple years after I got out and I, yeah, no, I see. That's the cool thing where as you start to see common pieces of the puzzle in different facets of life. And so we have what's happening with police officers. But if you're not careful, you think, oh, we'll work, we're unique, we're a separate segment of society and you feel isolated. But then we'll send you feel like, well hey, we have some the same symptoms of people who went to battle and then you realize that people who are in substantial trauma situations like in a, in a car or truck accident, well now they have some common things. And so I think one of the solutions, and it's not easy, I don't want to sound like as easy is that we team up, I think we team up. That's a cool thing that you're, the thing that I see what you guys are doing is you are creating a team, a network. When I listened to you about your fishing trip, I thought, man, you guys, you guys got going, you got something special there. And so, um, yeah. If we can start bringing in the different facets and say this, hey, let's use some of the resources that you guys have developed and some of the tactics that you guys now understand and help people who experienced trauma in other aspects of life.

Ashlie 1: (11:10)
I think it's great that you pointed that out and I love that you preface that by saying that we need to use caution. Um, I just read about another, another police officer. He lives in New York who committed suicide and his service is going to be tomorrow and it just really hit me because the media was very graphic and portraying the fact that his girlfriend was at home and they're talking about the witnesses that heard her shouting, no, no, no. Right before it happened. Hearing the gunshot and hearing her screaming, no, no, no. Again and there, they're just taking us through such a portrayal of what I believe to be very raw and even defaming and we can get into the whole, the whole is with media in general. But the point I'm trying to make here is, is there was one lieutenant who pointed out that it should be routine and consistent for not only police officers, but for anybody in a high stress profession. So it'd be it doctors are like name, name a high stress profession too, where there's some sort of annual therapy. That way it becomes not only required, but it starts to become more open and acceptable. And people don't feel like there's something wrong with you. People understand the fact that this isn't an aide. This is literally like a medical supplement that you need in addition to your profession. What are your thoughts on that?

Rick 2: (12:31)
Oh, yeah. I mean, some of the solutions are not, they're not easy, but they're common, you know, because one of the things I'm doing now is in my longevity studies as, as we try to figure out how can you have a wife of significance that doesn't end when you're in the military or when you played sports, they can continue on. And you know, some of the common factors that, uh, because apathy, what happens is a person, uh, like with both post-traumatic stress, all of a sudden they ask them questions. Does anybody love me? Do I have anybody to love? Do I now have a purpose? Is there something broken? You're my wife and who, who am I part of a team? We'll, we'll see old folks think that they think something's broken. I'm not as physically active as before. People were, people stereotype me and tell me I'm going to lose my memory.

Rick 2: (13:23)
I'm not going to remember things. And so some of that is a, there's a study that the words set in motion, physical action in your body. So when you start saying a person has post-traumatic stress, say a placement, if he starts saying, well, I'm crazy, there's something wrong with me. People are not know, don't know how to respond to me. And then what do they do? They back off. And then the isolate themselves. Another one of the factors that, uh, really set in motion, this thing of depression. And, uh, and that happens with the age of people, they all of a sudden feel like, oh man, I don't want to, uh, like my, my stepfather used to say he wouldn't come to a family gathering because, oh, I don't, you know, I don't walk that well and people have to take care of me and bring my food.

Rick 2: (14:13)
And he's the guy that needs this the most. The officer who has experienced a situation that's not a time to go into isolation. And that's where the team, you know, again, I love it when the team shows up, even, you know, you hate it. Uh, there was an officer killed in the line of duty here, Mississippi and the streets lined up with soldiers and officers and, and you know, for him, uh, the mission was over, but for his family, for his children to see, hey, daddy meant something, somebody for his wife to see. Daddy met some and he was part of something. I think that that nothing can erase the healing, but I think that helps.

Ashlie 1: (14:56)
Yeah. And it, it brings emotion up for me because when we hear about that, especially Clinton, we're just having this discussion yesterday being not the platform that we have created. We give every intent to pour out positive and influential training information, the words we speak, we have a very important intent when it comes to showcasing things and in recent time we've gained a significant amount of feedback thanking us for not showcasing a lot of the negativity that we do see on similar niche social sites, let's say. To hear that, to hear that from somebody, not let's say in our immediate circle and to hear the respect and just the identification that you had during something like that, like it means a great deal to us to hear that identification and, and taking a step back and maybe bringing the level up just a little bit, but in a lot of my neuroscience studies, Rick, what you had made mention of with the ability to take your thoughts and like plant the seed so to speak.

Ashlie 1: (16:13)
There are newer studies that have come out that are showcasing the fact that even having the mental exercises in our mind of like physical mobility is producing real physical, statistical, statistical growth in even on like muscle mass. So it's amazing what could happen when we start to identify the power of our intuition, of our, our cognitive abilities. But we need, we need a place for people to be able to showcase how to do it. This isn't something that were ever taught, and that's something I love about the company that you've created with the epilogue worthy life, is that you really want to show people that you don't have to follow this social standard that doesn't have to apply to you anymore.

Rick 2: (16:58)
Yeah. You know, the thing that I saw in the military in this was a big thing for me spiritually, is that I didn't come from a spiritual background. I mean like my one step father was Catholic and so I hit a little thing of Catholic and I didn't really know anything about God or church and I was in the military and there were two guys, there was two soldiers and they really stuck out to me. And these were guys, these are the guys you wanted to be with. If you were going into a tough situation, you wanted to be with them. And they somehow talked about their spiritual life. Like it was natural. Not that it was weird, they didn't pass out tracks, but they felt like they, they felt like they believed that God existed in, played a role in their life and that their job was to, to be an example.

Rick 2: (17:39)
And I was, I was fastened. I was intrigued by it. I mean, these are guys that didn't just talk about it but lived it. And I think that's the same thing with what we're trying to do with this longevity study is that there's a lot of groups out there. They're talking about, oh, here's the supplements to take, or here's the research that supports it. The cool thing is, is I've been fortunate to team up with guys that are older than I am. I remember I thought, wow, I'm the baddest ass 65 year old guy in the gym and I would kind of strut around like a peacock. It soon as one guy, uh, was, there's one guy was obviously a little bit older. I didn't think he was older than me, but a little bit older and he was what I was trying to be.

Rick 2: (18:17)
I mean, you could see every single muscle in his body. He wasn't the bulked up, he was just ripped. And he's a trainer, athletic trainer or a fitness trainer. And so one time I said, his name was Joe. I said, Joe. I said, man, how old are you? I was expecting him to say 58. Well, he's a year older than me. And I was like, Joe, you hurt my feelings. I mean, really, I mean, you know, I lost a couple, uh, Turkey strut and feathers that day. And so, uh, and so then a couple of weeks go by and I'm on the treadmill and there's this, uh, a fella that a tall guy looked like a look like a older doctor. J just a very distinguished, a little bit salt, pepper in his hair. We get talking. He was a specimen too. He's on the treadmill. And I go, so you come here to put a shame on a old man here. And he goes, oh man. I said, well, how old are you? Well, same thing. He was 67. And I thought, Oh, what the heck? You know, I'm not even the second, uh, you know, most fake guy. But the point was, is what I, and then since then I've picked up about three other guys there, fortunately just a little bit younger than me.

Rick 2: (19:24)
But what happens is they are examples of people living the way that they believe. And so it's not statistics, it's not research. I mean, what I want to do is this investigate why is the, um, um, the retired Navy guy, why is he so healthy? He's taking care of his momma too. And so, you know, why is she so healthy? Uh, and um, and then the same thing with the fitness guide. So we're sort of looking at what, isn't that what you want? You want to be the best example of what you proclaim in what you believe. That's, that's, that's all. And so that's what we're trying to do is say, I don't know what supplements you need. I don't know. I don't know if they even help. Here's why I know is that having a positive attitude, teaming up with people. Um, uh, you know, your, your, your Kryptonite, minimizing the Kryptonite. That's in your life. Certainly Diet and exercise has a big role in that relationship. Listen, my wife, uh, if I live longer, it's because of her support and her love. And as I listened to you two guys, I mean, I see that you've got a powerful, you know, um, Dynamo going there and uh, anyway,

Clint 3: (20:37)
So, so for your longevity study that you're doing, it sounds absolutely amazing and I love that because it's not science-based, it's not, it's not based off of experts in the area of what supplements you can take and all that. It's based off almost your vibrational pattern that you put out in the day to day along with a healthy lifestyle. Yeah. So in that, how was that in turning? How, how have you seen other people enacting that around you, other than those people that you are doing this study with?

Rick 2: (21:17)
Yeah, well, one of the, there's a young guy that I'm, I'm coaching in our program. I'm coaching and, uh, he's like 22 years old. And he was also a fitness coach at this same club that went to, and he has a video business where he does commercials for people. And so I said, his name is Derek. And I said, Garrick. Um, I brought him into our meetings and because I thought, well, maybe he gave the help, you know, market it or sell it. And I said, do me a favor though. I'll be honest, is this just some nuance that's speaking to us older guys or is it, does this have some interest to a guy that's 22 years old or how rolly he's probably older than that, but, um, in his twenties. And he said, no, no, no. He was, listen, he goes right now, he goes, a younger person's role model sometimes is another young person, a skateboarder, a guy that's invented some app. And he goes, that only takes you so far. He goes, so my question to myself is, uh, what does life have in store for me? 10, 20, 30 years from that? And he goes, you guys give us a positive picture of what that could be. And so that's kind of the question I asked my kids. I said, let me be honest, is this something that doesn't have anything to do? Everybody is wondering what's around the corner. Huh?

Clint 3: (22:43)
And, and it's really funny, like I, as you're, you're talking about this eye I can picture of you and your buddies talking about in your meeting, you're all, it comes to my mind. I don't know if you're aware of the movie, the space cowboys. That's it. That's literally what is pinging at me right now. And then I could just see you guys all sitting around saying, no, you've got to do it this way, not this way. And you guys kinda transforming it and then, but really developing this plan, your approach on how you want to do it and bring it out to the world and you're so right. And I think back on every day on the news, you hear this ladies lived to be 105 years old and she attributes tributes it to drink in a Coors light every day. You know, or she had tr day attributed to not sleeping in the same bed together ever. And it's things like that, but what they're really not covering is how lifestyle that, that way of their own vibrational patterns, their own way of living. And it starts up here and it absolutely starts up here and you said it perfectly is when you have that one seed planted, whether it's a good seed or a bad seed,

Rick 2: (23:57)
It's going to grow.

Clint 3: (23:58)
That's right. If you had that good seed planted, it's really developing from there. And that's what the key is to longevity.

Rick 2: (24:08)
Yeah. Well any type of recovery. And that's, you know, for me it's, well, here's what happened for me is that I'd had some injuries. Um, and I guess life was, was I was trying to get some businesses going and I wasn't at home as much as I needed to. I was missing some ball games my kids were playing in and it wasn't, wasn't really in a good place. What wasn't, wasn't a happy place. And, uh, but I didn't know that. I didn't know any other way. And that's the problem is real examples of how to do it right. They're not, they're not out there. And, uh, and so one day I'm coming out of church and a lady comes up to me, she's looking at me and I'm thinking, oh Geez, what somebody hitting on me at church? She says, you, you will make a great person for a photo shoot.

Rick 2: (24:54)
I'm doing. I'm like, what? She goes, we're doing a calendar and we are going to have cheerleaders in every month and we're going to feature cheerleader, local high school cheerleaders and we need somebody for December. We need somebody to play Santa Claus with a cheerleader on her lap. I'm like, do I, do I get to keep my clothes on in this year? Or like some kind of Bordeaux? And she goes, no, no, no, no. You'll just be there with the, you know, sort of contemporary sack glass. And I'm like, yeah, well, no idea. My picture of Santa Claus, there's a bowl, you know, stomach, like a bowl full of jelly. And I thought, I still see myself as, you know, as rocky. I still see myself as some, some hero and she saying, no, no, you would really make a good Santa Clause. And it was that day, you know, it was called the day.

Rick 2: (25:38)
I said, I don't want that. I don't want that scenario. I don't want that to be my story that I'm going to be a Santa Claus. Uh, I still, I don't want all my, my, my hero stories to be when I was 20 years old in the military or when I was playing college football or whatever. I want some in the future. But here's what I realized is in order to do that, then okay, I'm going to have to monitor what I eat. I first am going to have to be healthy and then, uh, I need to tie up, man, you know what? I need to up my game with the people I know. That's why it's exciting to know you guys. You guys just elevated my friend level, you know. But there was some, listen, there was some people I had a kick out of my life and I think that's on any team.

Rick 2: (26:21)
I don't know if that's with the police force, but there's some folks that are negative and bring you down and make you weaker. And it was really during that time I, there was some folks, like I said, you know what, I'm not going to hang out with them anymore. So my wife and she said, good cause all we do is complain about stuff whenever we're around them. And I want to be around people that are exciting. I want to be around with young people, with the young mindset. And, and so I think in any recovery or improving your longevity, you need people to love. You need things to do. You need people to team up with. Uh, you need things that you want to learn. You need places that you're going to go to. You know, as I was listened to Ashley talk about, you're not fishing but wanting to fish and yeah. And, and I think you had indicated there was some fears in the process, but you, but the fears, you know why parachute, not because I'm, I'm brave and heights is cause it's scary. That makes life fun. [inaudible].

Ashlie 1: (27:23)
Yeah. I would love to just point something out to you and that's what you would discuss too to some people, the listeners, as you're listening to this, you, you might have found humor in Rick story as it pertains to being offered the very prestigious role of Santa Claus and him shutting it down. But the way that I see that Rick is you, you really broke the mold by telling her, no, I don't see myself the same way that you see me, and I think so many people don't have that type of courage because a lot of us think that we're being discourteous by disagreeing with somebody in that same instance, and I want to applaud you for really showcasing your own truth because I don't believe that a lot of people find it acceptable to do that. And Clinton, I always try to stress getting outside of that social norm and that conformity that we've really had imposed on us from a very, very young age. And I think that's a perfect example of showcasing that you're owning your own reality and you're not allowing anybody, be it a sweet little lady at Church or, or anybody else dictate who you're supposed to be.

Rick 2: (28:28)
Yeah, yeah. No, you know, you articulated perfectly. And I think that's the problem is that when the media, right now, that's who's defining a lot of things where I'm at, Mississippi is known to be a hotbed of racial tension. Yet the people that are on my team, it's predominantly black individuals. And then I asked them, I said, listen, maybe we can use this for something else other than longevity. Maybe we can show. And, and I think that there were, was a sense of the reality that the false reality, the false narrative that the media portrays are there other areas of hotbed were racial tensions. Yeah. But it's not, it's not predominant. It's the police that listen to police matter look like a bunch of crazy people out. Just shoot in the first person, walk around. And I know, I know police officers that that's not their intent.

Rick 2: (29:26)
Nobody's there with the camera when they're, uh, they're helping somebody or protecting somebody or when they're involved, engage in social activities in the community. Where's the camera then? And yet, but that doesn't make news. They want to, you know, they want a dirty Harry scenarios what they want. And so I think that that's why I told these guys that I'm working with, I said, I want you guys to be famous because you are worthy to be an example for the younger folks. I think Clint guys like you, you are worthy to be the example of what a policeman is. And it's not.

Rick 2: (30:02)
Well, we, can go to why bad things happen. But you know, in my mind, when I was, when I was a soldier, we practice every day shooting. We practice entering a room, how to go in with a team. And a lot of times what happens is that in some professions is that, uh, you're not engaged. We always felt like we're going to go to war. We were ready. A police officer doesn't go to work that think this day. And I remember the story that I actually talked about with the, when you entered the house is that, gee, you didn't know that day that you're going to actually go to the crossroads of life and death. And so for, I think the unfortunate things for what I, my experience with police officers, they are not in that tension mode of I better have my six gun drawn at any moment. And so, and then now we're going to criticize somebody who went from kissing their wife goodbye and then entered into a combat zone. The, I think it's unfair. I think it's the media. I blame the media because they're just trying to get, they don't care about you. They don't care about the victim. They care about a good story and shame. Shame on them.

Clint 3: (31:11)
Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't have said it better myself and, and I appreciate your kind words. I really do. Um, you know, and, and being a police officer and being your first responder in general, it's, it's not easy nowadays. Times have changed. We have to adapt, we have to overcome. But you know, one thing Ashley and I really wanna to do is, is, you know, present the humanity behind the badge, whether you're a firefighter, a police officer, or an ambulance driver. You know, firefighters always get the positive news stories, but it's kinda something that we as first responders, we all have the animosity towards each other than we had and we've talked about to you the listener before in reference to that. But for four, as a first responder, you know, when we go to work, we kiss our spouse, we kiss our kids, our dogs, whoever that may be to you. And we don't go out upon, you know what, I'm going to shoot somebody today. Yeah. That's the least of what we've ever thought about. It's really trying to understand what can I do not to have to shoot somebody? What can I do to come home safe to my family at the end of the day while I protect the city, the county, the state that I worked for.

Ashlie 1: (32:33)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You both of you, I appreciate you for sharing that. And Rick, I just want to dive into a little bit of the epilogue worthy life a little bit because I know how hard you're working and you've created this team of very likeminded individuals who understand that there's so much more that you're worthy of and creating and receiving and giving in in your world, especially as you age. So can you talk to the listener through a little bit about some of the services that you've created and what your offering is?

Rick 2: (33:03)
Well, well, we're very early. We're very early in the process. And so right now what we're doing is, um, you know, silver, our motto is we got stuff to do. That's the model we have stuff to do. It's not over. We're not, I'm not, we're not retiring. We're not going fishing. And so what we're doing right now is we're formulating the stories and identifying the message that, uh, each of these individuals have. And that's what we really want to do with, uh, um, w our plan is to do probably on, um, a podcast, uh, to do some seminars because, you know, uh, one of the guys is, um, you know, he's, he's, he's an expert on fitness and diet and, and things like that. And so we want to help people, um, understand how your diet affects