In this episode of the Humane Marketing podcast, I’m joined by Pauliina Rasi to explore the art of effortless and authentic social media post writing. We dive into why writing for social media can feel daunting, and how you can overcome those challenges by finding your unique voice and style.  Pauliina shares practical strategies for brainstorming fresh content, maintaining consistency, and offers a sneak peek into the powerful frameworks we’ll cover in our upcoming workshop.  This conversation is designed to inspire and empower entrepreneurs to write with more ease and flow, aligning your social media presence with the principles of humane marketing. Here's what we talked about: + Why writing social media posts can feel so daunting + How to find your unique voice and style in your social media posts without feeling like you’re copying others + Strategies for brainstorming ideas and generating fresh content for your posts + Tips for maintaining consistency + And a sneak peek of the frameworks that Pauliina will share with us in our upcoming workshop on September 4th - https://lu.ma/f64hyojw And so much more... --- video1182592561 Sarah: [00:00:00] Hello, Humane Marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non pushy. I'm Sarah Zanacroce, your hippie turned business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama bear of the humane marketing circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you're ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what we're doing. Works and what doesn't work in business, then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way. We share with transparency and vulnerability, what works for us and what doesn't work. So that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane. marketing forward slash circle. And if you prefer one on one support from me, my humane business coaching could be just what you need. Whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea like writing a book, I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15 years business experience. experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my mama bear qualities as my one on one client can find out more at humane. marketing forward slash coaching. And finally, if you are a marketing impact pioneer and would like to bring humane marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website at humane. marketing. com. Dot marketing. Ep 195 intro: Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Humane Marketing Podcast. I hope you're doing well and had a wonderful summer. Maybe didn't even notice that I skipped one of the episodes this August, but I'm back. I'm back with another conversation. Today's conversation fits. The P of promotion, and I'm talking to Paulina Razzi, a communication strategist and [00:03:00] copywriter about effortless and authentic social media posts writing. If you're a regular here, you already know that I'm organizing the conversations around the seven Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. And if this is your first time here, well, a big warm welcome. We're all about humane business, humane marketing, humane selling. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, you can download your one page marketing plan with the humane marketing version of the seven piece of marketing at humane. marketing. com. One page, that's the number one and the word page. And this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different P's and help you with your foundational clarity for your marketing and business. So, my friend Paulina Razzi is a writer, communication strategist, and trainer. With 20 years of experience as a journalist and communications consultant, she helps [00:04:00] businesses, projects, and professionals communicate their messages with clarity and confidence. Paulina's work focuses on breaking writing strategy into actionable pieces so that professionals and entrepreneurs can turn into. Effective content effortlessly and cut through the digital noise to share their message with people who matter. When not typing on her laptop, she can be found on the slopes of the Swiss Alps or spending time in nature with her family and friends. Yes, you guessed it, uh, Paulina is local here in Switzerland and we've actually, we're one of these people who have met in person. So that's always extra special. So here's what we talked about on this episode. Why writing social media posts can feel so daunting, how to find your unique voice and style in your social media posts without feeling like you're copying others, strategies for brainstorming ideas and generating fresh content for your posts. [00:05:00] Tips for maintaining consistency, and then a sneak peek of the frameworks that Paulina will share with us in our upcoming CoLab workshop on September 4th. So without further ado, let's dive in. Sarah: Hey Paulina, so good to see you and hang out with you for a bit to talk about social media posts. I'm very excited to have you here. Pauliina: Likewise. Thank you for having me, Sarah. Sarah: Wonderful. So we are doing a collab workshop together. And, uh, this time the topic is all around kind of like very pragmatic information around how do you structure and write, uh, those social media posts, which we know a lot of people are struggling with, right? It's, yeah. Is that also the feeling that you get? Like, because I think people are struggling with several things around this social media [00:06:00] presence kind of thing. Um, one of them, I think is consistency, but let's talk about consistency later. Let's first talk about this idea of. writing these posts. What do you see when you work with your clients? Why is that such a struggle for people? Pauliina: Well, writing is terrifying. I've been writing in one way or another, most of my career, and I can also relate on the emotional level to, to that struggle. And I see it in my client's lives and I experienced it in my own life as well. If not on a daily basis, regularly anyway, and that would, that would be maybe my first message that even though you are a professional writer, you can write a lot, but you can still sometimes feel that struggle because there's a lot at play there really when you're trying to write, especially when you write about yourself and your own work. And, um, and, uh, it's, it can be sensitive. It can be, [00:07:00] it can make you feel vulnerable. And there's a lot of authenticity at, uh, at play when you're writing about yourself, but, uh, but it can be, it can be overcome as well, when you, when you work through, through it, uh, well, enough, uh, enough, and when you develop different capabilities, capabilities around that. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, no, I hear you. I think, I think there's. There's this fear of really truly showing up and. You know, I have this, I I've, as you know, I've been, uh, my first business was a LinkedIn consultant. So I've been growing up on LinkedIn. And to me, it's not scary at all to completely make a fool of myself on LinkedIn anymore. But I have, uh, like one very good friend who's been on LinkedIn for years as well. But she's still. still kind of feels like, Oh, but this is the professional network. And can I really, truly be myself? And w you know, and so I think a lot of people have [00:08:00] that with LinkedIn, especially, um, and of course also with, with other platforms, but LinkedIn kind of has this heaviness to it still because of how it came about. And it's changed a lot, but. I think it's also because a lot of maybe our clients moved out of the corporate world, and so they had to kind of like, wear this professional mask, and now they're going into their own business, coaching, consulting, and all of a sudden they're, they're asked, To show up as authentic and, and it just kind of feels weird. Right? So I think one of the big things is like, how do I find my voice on these platforms? How do you help people find their voice? Pauliina: Absolutely. And I think you're onto something there, especially when you say about LinkedIn and how rapidly the platform has changed. So many of us might be feeling that we aren't, we haven't really fully caught [00:09:00] up yet. And, um, and when you, when you feel that way, finding your voice and knowing. What part of your voice you actually want to project might be a little bit tricky, and it comes to down to defining your strategy and setting your goals. When I see people struggling on LinkedIn or on other platforms, if we backpedal a little, is it can be for the lack of strategy. So not really knowing What to say what they're trying to achieve, not not being sure how they're going to reach that. That's a big building block. And if you don't have those questions, it might be very hard to do with confidently the other reason or the other part that people might be struggling with is the confidence that you that that you also maybe your friend might be suffering from not having the confidence or the courage to say what they want. Know what they need to say. And then the third third element. There is the practical practical part like how am I? How am I going to say, say [00:10:00] exactly, but you need the three or three of them so you can be consistent. You can be confident and that you can be clear about the message, knowing what you're going to say, finding the inner courage, the confidence to to project your voice and then the practice finding the ways the strategies, the template, the frameworks that work for you. And when you have all. All three in place, it gets a lot easier, but I would also like to say that it's okay if it doesn't always feel easy. Like some of, some, some of us might feel like I don't care if I make a complete fool out of myself. I've already done that. And for others, I have clients who've been very, very visible, very present for years, and they still get the wobble of it every, every now and then. And that can be part of the process as well. And that can be, that can be okay. Sarah: Yeah, I always encourage my, my change makers to, to embrace that role. Like that is truly the role of a change maker and change is not easy. Right. [00:11:00] And so it, it, it almost is part of the change making is that you have to put that message out there and yes, it's not going to be easy, but. It will get easier because everything gets easier by practice. So exactly. And you can Pauliina: get better at February. It might still feel scary at times, but I think it's also a good thing to go towards what's scary or what you're afraid of, because it tells people that you're doing something new. And it's also a part of finding that voice. If you, if you never feel scared, if you always feel super comfortable, maybe you're not fully using your voice or spreading your message. So that's, um. That's something to keep in mind as well. Sarah: Yeah, that just gave me goosebumps. I think that's such a good point because a lot of people who come to me for humane marketing, they tell me that they've just gone through the motions of marketing, meaning they've just gone through, you know, posting things kind of like they. Took some [00:12:00] class and some guru told them, well, this is how it works. This is how you have to do it, but without helping them to find their own voice. And so it's these empty posts that just feel like marketing messages. And, and that is it. Look, totally less scary, right? The scary thing, like you mentioned at the beginning is the vulnerability. Uh, but that's where the human connection and that's where you really resonate that this frequency level and not just like, oh, there's another marketer or there's another copy writer. So. You're totally right. It's like, if, if you haven't, if it doesn't feel scary, then ask yourself, well, are you really truly putting yourself in those posts or, or not? Yeah. Pauliina: Exactly. Exactly. And often what we often forget on social media is that authenticity and that connection, it's much more important than perfection. Like, you don't need to be the best writer out there. You don't need to write as well as [00:13:00] maybe some professional writers, writers do, but you need to have something, some, something of you in that message. So it resonates. And that's often a discussion I have with my clients and people in my network as well, because they might come to me and ask, like, could you write this for me? I could, but actually most of the time they do much, a much better job writing themselves for themselves. Even though it's maybe a little bit less. Perfect on the surface, or maybe the turn of the phrases aren't as polished as they could be, but their authenticity and their voice and their experience shines through. And it's much more powerful and it's much more important than the perfection, perfection of the message. Sarah: Yeah, that's so true. I want to come back to the three ingredients you shared, but what you just said also makes me think of AI and how You know, we could totally just now use ChatGPT or any other tool to have all our posts written [00:14:00] and we know we're good to go. But what you just mentioned is, is like, well, how is ChatGPT going to really, truly bring in your authentic self? It can, like, I'll have to admit it does a pretty, pretty good job, but you still have to come up with the. The topics you guys still have to come up with, you know, the experiences, Chachapiti doesn't know your life, you know, these little moments of storytelling that you share to connect. Uh, it doesn't know that. So, um, you can use probably AI as a tool to help you kind of fine tune some of your posts, but I would, yeah, I would probably say, don't just Give it all over to ChachiBT and say, Oh, just write my post because that's kind of probably the risk that we're going to run into that everything just feels like perfect. And, and then there's, yeah, there's less of that authenticity in there [00:15:00] again, I'm very much pro ChachiBT, but yeah, I wouldn't just hand it over, uh, to, to write my posts for me at all. Pauliina: No, I wouldn't either. And I think it can be a great sparring partner. It can be a great, uh, well, not a person, but a great tool to ask, like, how would you approach this topic? I'm writing about this. Am I missing something? What kind of an analogy would you use to describe this? Or kind of like spar with that? Especially if you work alone, it can be super helpful, but it only does a very mediocre job in writing for you. And like you said, like, it doesn't know the words you You use, it doesn't come up with creative expressions very often, unless you ask specifically. Um, so you need to, you, well, you need to leave some space for your personality. Definitely. Sarah: Yeah. All right. So getting back to the three ingredients you mentioned is confidence, strategy, And then the actual frameworks and just how to, to follow. So we're going to cover the how to and the frameworks [00:16:00] in, in our uh, workshop on September 7th. Uh, so if you're listening to this or watching us, we'd love to have you join us, humane. marketing forward slash workshop. Um, But we want to cover maybe, uh, uh, I think we talked a fair amount, uh, about confidence. Um, let's talk a little bit about strategy. So I think one of the things people struggle with is that they just, you know, open whatever social media platform it is and then go, what should I write? So how can we better approach this? How do you, Yeah. Help your clients with strategy. Pauliina: Well, the first question I'm helping my clients answer is what is your message? What is it that you bring to a table? What is it that you can help people with? What are your unique capabilities, your talents? What is special about you? So everything starts with what did you have? To get, then there's of course, a [00:17:00] question of who you are speaking to writing too. So you can tailor that message to be relevant for them. And then we come to a question of channels, like where to be present, where to reach those people, but it all starts with, what do you have to share? And, uh, focusing on that and nailing and nailing that is so crucial because if you don't know what you are going to say, what do you, what, what is the message you want to get across? Well, everything else becomes just very random. Sarah: Yeah, it's kind of this chicken and the egg thing that we often have. And, and it's funny because people like when I look at beginning, uh, coaches or, or, or business owners in general, they immediately want to go to social media, right, without doing the foundational work, the getting that clarity. We can be, yeah, we can be present on social media for years and years and nothing ever comes [00:18:00] out of it if we don't know what, what we're offering. We don't know who our clients are. We don't know where they are in their journey. So yeah, there's, there's a lot of information that needs to be in place before we ever go on social media. And we can actually kind of hurt. our reputation if we go out there too early and then looking from the outside in and look, it kind of gets completely confusing for people who are like, one day she's talking about this, the other day about that. It's like, what is she doing? Like, I Pauliina: don't get it. So exactly. And we can hurt ourselves in the process by burning ourselves out and spending a lot of energy on something that's not moving us forward. As forward at all. Like it is a little bit of this throwing spaghetti to a wall and seeing what sticks which can be if you just start shopping on social media channels before setting up a foundation. And then when you set up the strategy, it's really [00:19:00] deciding on what kind of spaghetti you're going to use and how long you're going to cook it for before you start start throwing it on a wall wall and that can really change everything. Of course, there's always that aspect of going out there and just trialing and seeing what works, but it's a whole another world when you do that strategically, and don't just just start somewhere and do exactly what you just described there. Yeah, Sarah: yeah, so true. So, I want us to give just a little sneak peek about the frameworks, because I think that's what people are, you know, it's nice to have the security of some kind of structure. And yes, we're still saying, well, Use the structure, but infuse your own voice, right? Don't just follow it to the dot, but I think it gives people that security, uh, to, to know, oh, okay, there's some kind of structure that I'm following. So without giving everything away, [00:20:00] because we would love people to join us for the workshop, but tell us a little bit about, um, these frameworks that you're using. Pauliina: Confidently and frameworks. Indeed, they can bring this additional layer of security. It's almost like a safety net. Always have something to fall back on and when you have your strategy sorted out, you can start using these templates in a way and creating maybe even your own templates and frameworks in a way that still allows your internal light light to shine. But one of the favorite favorite frameworks I like to use is it's called stair s t e a. And that's, um, that is something I like to use, especially when tapping into the emotional, emotional aspect of writing and emotional aspect of our reader's lives, because it allows us to look at the situation they're in, uh, the thoughts, the emotions, uh, they have about the situation, the actions they take, and then how you can help turn that, uh, [00:21:00] around so they get different results. So it's, uh, it's, it's a network I like, like using, especially when trying to reach, uh, reach, uh, the emotional aspect aspect in my readers, readers lives. And, uh, it's, uh, very practical in the sense that even though it sounds like a lot of, a lot of acronyms to begin with, when you really are really, um, use it a few times, you, uh, you can create a good library of templates for yourself. So Sarah: what do the letters stand for? S-T-E-A-R-S Pauliina: stands for situation, whether what, what's the situation, whether reader might be in t is, uh, about the thoughts they have about their situation, and e is about the emotion. So that allows you to put yourself self in their shoes and approach this, uh, the situation from their point of view. A refers to actions. What are the actions they typically take because of the thoughts and emotions? And what are the actions you could help them take as the professional [00:22:00] if they followed your guidance? And R is about the results. What are the results they get? And what are the results they could get if they use your method? So that's why it's, uh, it's, it can be very practical for, especially for service, service business owners and people selling different services. Sarah: Mm, yeah, that, that helps a lot to, to first kind of project yourself into the client's shoes and then, you know, using empathy and compassion, understanding their situation, the thoughts, what they're not saying as well, and then bringing it back to you and say, okay, um, here's the action I want you to take. And also. Here's a possible solution I have. Um, I love that. Yeah. And, and again, we're, we're going to apply that during our workshop and actually have a breakout room where you ask people to, you know, apply this framework and give them guidance on how to write a post and, and then [00:23:00] we can share them in the chat and you'll get feedback. I think, I think one thing we're doing well in our community is that we, you Create the time and space to apply, uh, what we're learning and not just, you know, content overloading our minds and go, Oh, there's like 10 frameworks and this is how it works. And, and now, you know, go off on your own and try to figure it out. I think, uh, we need more spaciousness and time to be able to actually integrate, uh, these, all this mind stuff that comes our way. So, um, Yeah, I really look forward to having this kind of hands on experimenting with your framework. So that sounds great. Any last tips on consistency? Because that's another thing that I think people struggle with is like, oh yeah, they can do like, you know, a month and then they get [00:24:00] frustrated and tired because there's not enough likes or not enough comments. Um, and then they. You know, feel like, oh, I tried it and it didn't work. So what would you say in terms of consistency is a good, good advice. Pauliina: When it comes to consistency, of course, the basics are the first building block. Again, the strategy, the confidence, having the, having the tools in place. So having that strategic block in place is, uh, is crucial because it's hard to be consistent if you don't really know where you're going and how you plan to get there. The other, uh, thing that's very important are routines. So how do you build your weeks and months so that you have time to create a content that Is consistent to you often when I start working with my clients, they come to me saying like, Oh, I could easily publish every day on LinkedIn or every other day. And then I asked, like, how long does it take you to create that content and they realize it might take them four hours, which is a big time [00:25:00] commitment for someone else who has other things on their plate as well. So being looking into your weeks and months and seeing whatever routines you can build in there so that you can really get. Your content done. And finally, being realistic with what consistent means to you. Consistent is not necessarily daily. Often on many channels, it means weekly, because if you don't do things often enough, you lose momentum. But it's good to remember that your consistency doesn't need to be someone else's consistency. It's always better to start slow and easy. Maybe even if If it means that you publish weekly on LinkedIn or even less often and then build it up from there so that rather than the going the other way around so trying to do it to do it daily and then falling off the wagon and getting all depressed and having to start all over again next month. Sarah: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think it's, it's, it's something that you could do more if you [00:26:00] enjoy it. And if it comes, becomes easier and easier, but if it's a drag, then why would you want to do it, you know, more often, uh, I mean, our, our businesses are supposed to be joyful and if social media posting is not your favorite thing in your business, well then reduce it to once per week and instead of Just going through the motions really take the time to create a more meaningful post rather than just a, you know, marketing slash sales post. I think exactly, Pauliina: exactly. And I think it's so important to work on things that are meaningful and rewarding for you as well, especially if you're a one person business, it changes when you start having a team around you, because then you can start outsourcing things that don't come. Naturally, but especially when you're on your own, you're writing about yourself. You are the face and the voice of your business. It's so important to do content and create content that's meaningful and natural to you as [00:27:00] well. Sarah: Yeah, Pauliina: yeah. Sarah: So good. Well, I really look forward to this. session in our community. Um, again, if you're listening, this was just kind of a teaser. I hope we gave you enough content still to, to make you understand how, yeah, how Paulina is approaching this topic. I only choose my workshop collaborators, uh, because we have aligned values. So definitely feel very good about that. So hope to have you join us on September 7th, uh, 2024 humane. marketing forward slash workshop. Paulina, any last words of wisdom regarding social media? Maybe, maybe I think I have listeners who are like, I'm just done with social media. So what would you tell them? Pauliina: Well, do whatever works for your business. If social media doesn't feel good for [00:28:00] you for any number of reasons and not good goes beyond like basic, basic wobbly feet, find other ways to connect with, with your audience and with your friends. Social media is not mandatory. It's a fantastic place to test different ideas, uh, to share your voice, share your message. But there are plenty of others if that doesn't feel like an authentic way for you to connect with the people you're trying to reach. Sarah: Hmm. Yeah. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for doing this and I can't wait to our workshop together. Pauliina: Thank you for having me, Sarah. And I look forward to diving in into all this with a human marketing circle in September. Thank you. Have a wonderful day. You too. Bye. Ep 195 outro: I hope you got some great value from listening to this episode. You can find out more about Paulina and her work at paulinarazzi. com. That's Paulina with two [00:29:00] I's. Uh, so P A U L I N A R A S I. com. She also has a free guide with content ideas and you find that at paulinarazzi. com forward slash free. And if you'd like to roll back your sleeves and get to know Helena's frameworks so you can apply them week after week to your social media posts, then join us for the next CoLab workshop on September 4th. I think I said September 7th once during the episode. So no, it's September 4th, a Wednesday, and you can sign up for a donation at humane. marketing forward slash workshop. These workshops are hosted in our community, the Humane Marketing Circle. And if you'd like to join that and then get access to all the collab workshops, you can find out more at humane. marketing forward slash [00:30:00] circle. You find the show notes of this episode at humane. marketing forward slash H M 1 9 5. And on this beautiful page, you'll also find a series of free offers, the Humane Business Manifesto, as well as my two books, Marketing Like We're Human and Selling Like We're Human. Thank you so much, as always, for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who cares for yourself, your clients, and your business. and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers. So go be the change you want to see in the world. Speak soon.

I’m back with another short unplugged episode. This time it’s a conversation with Melissa Davis of humanityinc.world and myself around the topic of Niching. Melissa was on the podcast on episode 182. So if you’ve missed that, it’s definitely worth listening to! This was triggered by a meditation I recently posted on Insight Timer, if you’re on there, look for Find Your Niche - A Radically Different Approach. Melissa’s work is all about Foundational Clarity, helping entrepreneurs connect to their values. And we both have opinions around this idea of niching, and how to feel less anxious about it. So here goes. A short conversation with Melissa Davis about Finding Your Niche.

In this episode of the Humane Marketing podcast we dive deep into the transformative power of Human Design with expert Jen Freeman. We'll explore what Human Design is, how it can be specifically applied to business and entrepreneurship, and how understanding your type can help you in making informed business decisions. Jen shares insights on how each type might approach business differently and highlights key aspects of Human Design that are particularly relevant to entrepreneurs. Join us for an inspiring conversation to help you create a business that is authentically aligned with who you are. Here's what we discussed in this episode: What Human Design is for those who might not be familiar with it.How Human Design can be applied specifically to business and entrepreneurship.How knowing one's type can help in business decisions.An overview of how each type might approach business differently.Specific aspects of Human Design that are more relevant to business, like authority or profile, or certain channels or gates.How understanding our own Human Design has influenced our business journeys (both the guest's and mine).A sneak preview of what will be shared at our Collab Workshop on August 7th.And so much more --- [00:00:00] video1299808011: [00:01:00] [00:02:00] [00:03:00] [00:04:00] [00:05:00] [00:06:00] [00:07:00] [00:08:00] [00:09:00] Jen, it's so good to have you here. Welcome to the Humane Marketing Podcast. Thank you. I'm very excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Super happy to have this conversation with you. I feel like we, we've known each other for a long time. I just mentioned it in the intro, how we got to know one another and yeah, it's a pleasure to have you here. And even more to collaborate on this workshop together that we have coming up. So let's give people a little intro to well, human design and how we use it in business, but then we'll go much further into this during the workshop on August 7th. So why don't you start [00:10:00] Jen with explaining, maybe there's people who are listening who have never heard of human design. So I feel like yes, it's kind of in the zeitgeist, but maybe there's people who have not heard of it. So just kind of like a general introduction to human design. Okay, great. So the human design system was brought in by a gentleman named Rob, and he heard a voice and it said, are you ready? And for the next 9 straight days, he downloaded the system. I believe this was the early 80s and he tested it over the next 10 years. And he found it to be very accurate and began to slowly roll it out. And it grew to what it is today, where he's past, since past, but his school lives on, all the people he's trained. And the essence of it, it's based on something called the neutrino stream. And the neutrino is an infinitesimally small particle of mat that is a tiny bit of mass That comes from the sun and we filter these neutrino particles. And even in like our thumb, there's something [00:11:00] like 20 million in our phone at any given second. So it's part of the essence of being human is this interaction between our sun and how that interacts with us. So part of what human design system shows people is, is divided into types, which we'll talk about more in a bit. And it helps you to understand how your systems interacting with this neutrino stream and how you can truly. Work with it well to really live your best life. And so much of it has to do with how to really let go of conditioning, because we have something called centers. Some of them are open where we're deeply receiving conditioning, both from other people, the environment planets. And then there's ones that are called fix where we put out our own, I think of it, our own radio station. So human designs, the art of learning how to truly move correctly with your energy field in alignment with the whole. So it's not just you by yourself. Okay. You know, on your lonesome, it's really you inside all of life and how you can contribute both your well being and to the well being of life in the most optimal [00:12:00] manner. Yeah. It, it, it really is hard to describe it in such a short time, right? Because it's so complex. And when you first hear it and you hear like, What, this guy invented this and it was like a download and what, neutrino streams, what the heck is that? But yeah, it really has such depth that it took me years to get to the part, to get to the level where I'm at now of my understanding. And I've really only scratched the surface. But the reason I keep coming back to it is because. As you know, marketing, like we're human is all about starting from within, starting from who we are and then resonating with the right clients. And so that's why this tool and this knowledge is so important. So important to me, I feel like for people to really [00:13:00] understand who they are as you know, you and I both, both also believe in astrology and how that kind of helps us understand who we are, but human design just kind of adds another layer to that understanding. And yeah, over the years, I've. Really just gotten much more deeply into the, the study of human design in order to understand, like, like you mentioned, it's not just about me, but it's about me in relationship. To everything around us, because we're living in an ecosystem where we're constantly, you know, facing other people and in our business as well. And that's especially what we want to talk about today is like, well, how do we use a tool like that in, in business and in marketing maybe even. So I'd like you to pick up there. [00:14:00] Well, and one thing just as a bit. So, so for your listeners, I I first had my human design reading for myself 22 years ago, and I've worked with it with hundreds of people in 22 countries. So every color faith, I mean, everything, and it's just stayed true. So to me, it's describing something very fundamental, like our relationship to gravity. It's just there. So this is part of, I really. wholeheartedly invite everyone to test what we're about to talk about. This isn't something to just take in as a concept and believe. This is very much something to be like, Oh, and if it sparks your interest, if you feel curiosity, play with this, because it's really in starting to apply it, you really see the magic of it. So specifically to your point about marketing is the more you understand your type. And so there's four, there's four, arguably five types. So there's manifestors, There's generators, there's a subset called manifesting generators, there's projectors, and there's reflectors. And all four of these have different roles, different, [00:15:00] different ways that they work inside the field. So manifestors initiate. Now, I live in the States. And pretty much our whole culture, everyone's trained to be a manifesto. So, so, but the rest of the world, I'm sure y'all aren't quite in the insane level of capitalism. We are, but it's less than 10 percent of the population. So, in reality, only 10 percent of people are really meant to just be there. I've got an idea. I'm going to go do it. So, the manifestos, they're called energy beings and so are the generators. Now what this means by energy beings is they have access to energy to get stuff done. Right. But the manifestors, if you're a manifestor in business, then absolutely. I mean, in a lot of ways, it's amazing because you really can just go get stuff done like that, but you're not meant to actually work long term. It would really, it's, you're meant to initiate, but you don't have the energy to actually do the work. The generators. Are the worker bees. We're the ones. I'm a manifesting generator and Sarah, you're a generator, right? I'm a generator. Yeah. So we're the ones who [00:16:00] actually have it's correct. We have the amount of energy in our bodies that we are meant to work and we need to work. I mean, is when we work every day, we wake up, let's say, 100 Sarah units by the end of the day, you want to be down to almost 0. so you can truly rest. Right. So if you find out you're a generator in business. One of the key points is you need to wait to be initiated by life itself, by a manifestor. You need to wait, and this could be very challenging if you think you're supposed to be getting out there and initiating right away. Right? But let's just say that, and I, someone comes along and says, Hey, you know what? That recipe you've got, I think you have a really great bread baking business. You feel inside and we'll talk more about authority in a second, but you feel you get an answer you feel a yes Then it's like go for it begin the work begin to build it and it's you could say it's blessed by life, right? But if you have not been initiated by life and you try to manifest and you just do it out of nowhere There'll be a sense of [00:17:00] drudgery and difficulty and going uphill both ways in the snow, right? So the third type is the projectors. I want to just I want to just pause and think about this manifesting because It's interesting because kind of in this new age movement, there's all this talk about manifesting, right? Manifesting money, manifesting clients, manifesting anything. And it's always kind of like, well, we can create. Whatever we dream of, and we just manifest it, like, do you feel like there's a connection to the manifester type? And maybe again, that whole idea of you can manifest anything, that actually only applies to, To the manifestors. Great question. Or is that not the same kind of manifesting? Fantastic. And I've spent a long time looking at this. And so I, and part of what I think is important is to hold the human design language specifically in the container of human design, right? Because [00:18:00] they really mean something specific about a manifestor who's born in this kind of way. And at the same time, the new age culture, when it's talking about manifesting, So there's a, a universal truth of all human beings that what we can envision, like what, what I'm also trained as a shaman. So, so in, in that world, an indigenous language, there's something called the 1st attention and 2nd attention 1st attention is attention follows belief. So that basically means if we think that we'll never be able to make it. Our mind will filter information to see that we can't do it. Second attention is where attention follows energy. What's actually alive and real and happening. So to me, that question of manifestation, and I think better on my eyes, it has to do with truly understanding is something alive. If it's alive, then yes, you're going to be able to have it come true in a completely different way. But what I've seen, especially again from a state's perspective. [00:19:00] These egoic desires that are really coming from a wound, like when people are like, Oh, if I only manifest a sports car, then I'll be happy. Right. That's not the kind of manifesting we're talking about here. Right. We are all master creators. I mean, it's the nature of being a human being. We create, we create with our words, we create with our thoughts. So this is, and of course our actions within this framework of the human design context. We are looking at our, our, our self as energy beings or not energy beings and really getting, it's like being like, oh, okay, so I'm, I'm more of like a, a speaker and you're more of a plumber. Oh, you're a builder. It's more understanding how we're meant to move energetically in the whole. Right. So, so that's something that, and it's such a great question and it's such a deep topic. So the simplest way I could sum up what I said is to understand that all of us by our nature create, we are nonstop creators. It's what we [00:20:00] do. It's what it means to be alive. Right. Even the fact we eat food, it goes in and digests. We create our organs. We are, we are always creating, but from the standpoint of a manifester in the human design system, they are the only people truly meant to have an idea, get out of their chair and go make it happen without resistance. Got it. Yeah. Great. So, and so generators and manifesters are these energy beings? Yes. Yes. And the generators are approximately 70 percent of the population. Okay. Thank you. So really, the majority of people, we're living in a generator world, you could basically say, right? The projectors and the reflectors, there are other two types. Projectors are about 20 percent of the population, and they're called non energy beings. And so they're here to actually feel all the energy beings and then help direct them, like help see. To me, I think of them as the managers. You know, like really good managers, you know, where they can be like, Oh, wait, you should do this. Stop doing this. You should be over here. Right? [00:21:00] But they are, they need the energy being such as the generators, the manifestos. To actually invite them in to offer their truths. And then actually do the work projectors are not also meant to do the work, right? They can really exhaust themselves. And the very last is the super rare. They're like the unicorn here. They're less than 1%. They're the reflectors. And reflectors by their nature, they reflect whatever they're in contact with. So part of their role in the whole is to be able to report back. Like, how are we doing? So I have a reflector client I've been coaching for five years, and it's this never ending journey for her of really understanding where she places her attention and what she feels and how she can communicate it to people. They're very rare, but they're very powerful, those reflectors. Very important for all of us. Yeah, I used to have a virtual assistant who was a reflector, and it was just like Such a different human being yeah, you could, [00:22:00] you could immediately tell that there's something unique about her. Exactly. Yes. Yes. That's great. I'm just kind of reflecting. So I have a son who's a manifester. And yes, they're also very unique human beings not just because it's my son, but, but yeah, in terms of that energy. Right. And it's not, if I compare it maybe to the generator energy, it's not as stable. It's more fluctuating in terms of, you know, they get a lot of energy and they can work nonstop and then they take longer pauses in between, you know, until they get inspired again. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Where, what you said about the generators, it's kind of like, we're these working bees. And yeah, we get up every morning and have energy to work until until the night. And that kind of made me reflect that I remember Ram [00:23:00] mentioning at one point that maybe this will change as well, that maybe. And yeah, I'm just thinking back to the industrial revolution, like wondering if all these worker bees came into the world during the industrial revolution. And if that eventually will change with this new kind of business paradigm, world paradigm that we're trying to create, have you? Yeah. Yeah. No. So great. Yeah. What a great, so I feel like it's a metaphor switch as well. And I'm so glad you asked that because. the evolution. So the thing about generators is if they say, basically, if they don't listen to their own inner authority, and this is definitely outside of what we're doing the podcast, but just, so let's just know there's a specific way inside each type. And even like a subway where you need to listen to yourself to discover your own truth of what's correct for you. So if a generator does not do that correctly and says [00:24:00] yes to something, they can really become enslaved. Basically. So they have all this energy, but it's now been enslaved and they can be miserable, like truly miserable as many people I'm sure can relate to. But if they really listen to themselves and say yes to the correct opportunity, then it's like, like my dad started his own company when I was 15 and watching him just be so excited every day to get up, to build this company, it was like. It boundless energy. You can just work and work and work and work. Right. So versus, so it's like a, a really different sense when it's a yes, when it's truly correct for you, the energy, the work becomes like wonderful. Right. You know, whereas if it's really not right for you and you're staying in whatever, for whatever reason, right. Some jobs, some anything, then it's, then it really is that industrial revolution working 12 hours a day in the cotton mill vibe, like where you really have been like captured. And then put to work for someone else's idea. [00:25:00] That's not really helping you. So I'm really glad you asked that because that, especially the more that society is going through all societies, the world is going through the transformations that we know we're inside with climate change, with all sorts of things, this ability to discern what's correct for your energy. And then to actually go towards it is going to become straight up survival skills. You know, it's, it's so important because. The difference like I was a part of my when I can testify in my own chart. I was in the financial industry for 8 or 9 years when I first started doing this work. And I think it was important. I learned all of that. I've still used it all the time, my own business, but it was not the right fit for my chart at all. It felt terrible. I felt drained in every way. And when I finally reached this cathartic crisis point where I really had to choose to live my beliefs and to test all this with my, the fullness of my entire life, everything changed. And even though I've been an entrepreneur, you know, for 12 years now, and there's [00:26:00] been, of course, the ups and downs of that every day I get up and do what I love and I feel energy. Right. And that's a big difference. I think you're, you brought up something so crucial. The crisis that we're in right now, the poly crisis, right? It's not just the climate, it's all these other things as well. To, to. Be in the wrong job is a matter of survival right now. So, so if you feel completely frustrated with the state of the earth and you're still in a job that just kind of is so depressing, then, then, yeah, you, you find no more joy whatsoever in life because. Clearly looking outside is not going to give you that joy. So, so kind of coming full circle and going within and maybe pivoting to something that contributes to, [00:27:00] to creating change or things like that, that I find like there's never been a better moment to, to do that right now. And I think there's a lot of people who are pivoting out of just kind of the soul sucking job into something that. Yeah, it's part of the solution, right? Cause a lot of people kind of start to feel, Oh, they're actually part of the problem and not the solution. And so I think human design can really help them with that because they, you know, they tap into their strengths, into their superpowers and, and then really, yeah, feel much more fulfilled. Let's go back to the business conversation. So you, you mentioned authority just very shortly. So for, for, for me, for example, it's, it's to, yeah, listen to my gut, right? Listen to my intuition. And if it feels like a hell yes, then I'm supposed to be doing it. And if it's kind of like, I'm not sure about [00:28:00] it, then it's probably going to drag me into the completely wrong direction. And I'm going to feel frustration a lot of frustration and man, have I felt that? You and me both sister. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And so what kind of other authority types are there? Strategy, yeah, yeah, strategy and authority. They go together. So each type has their strategy, but then the authority. So there's so we'll discover the top 3. There's the splenic authority and that's people whose truth is designed to be in the moment and immediate. Yes or no. It's from the spleen. I think of it as the immune. Well, it is part of the immune system, but I also think of it as the most least sense of humor voice. So if you have a splenic authority, or, you know, someone with it, they tend to say things very strongly. So I had a friend where I'm like, Oh, do you want to have Thai? No, you know, it was like, okay. I'm not trying to make you be type, but later I understood, Oh, that was her spleen. That was [00:29:00] her immune system coming out of her throat. So the thing about the splenic authority is it's only once in the moment. So if people are not listening or overrided or trained to be, you know, good boy, good girl, it's very deep for them to begin to realize they have their truth immediately. And that they really listening would be really good for them. The second kind, which is what you described, that's the sacral authority. And that is really the gut knowing. And it comes through sound. And this is so important. It's not logical. So for all those people with fixed mind, or, you know, the people who want you to explain logically why it's a no, there is no logic. It's not linear. It's a different logic, but it's not like that. So when, like Sarah said, when she gets the hell, yes, it's your gut. Well, you'll, you'll hope you'll get an huh. There'll be a sound or there'll be an huh if it's not. And really that's the key point of not getting enslaved. If you are. Because that's part of being a generator is if you have a fixed acro by definition, you're either manifesting generator or generator. So, as someone who's done both, [00:30:00] my God, the difference. So really learning to trust that, even if people are like, actually, that's how I met you, Sarah, was that you put out your first initial of this program or your current, you know, is your, your very beginning and I kept getting it. Huh. Huh. But I was like. What? Like, you know, I was like, I don't have money for that right now. I would, but but it just kept coming and I finally got in touch with the last night being like, I just keep getting it. Yes. And it changed my whole life. I met all these wonderful people. It's just, so yeah. So trusting the gut, even if your mind gives you all sorts of noise about it. And then the thirds, the emotional, the sack, the, the solar plexus, emotional people, which I'm one. And part of what that means is we need at least 24 hours to come to our truth. Because our truth is emotional. And I think of it as an XY axis. And so each emotion on it's like on a, it's a wave. So, so that the more you realize someone like you could invite me to go to dinner at 9am, but I'm in a low and I'm like, Oh, I'll be too tired tomorrow at noon. I could be like, Oh, you know, it could be a good idea. [00:31:00] 3pm. I'm like, I should totally go to dinner by 6pm. I'm like, I still don't know. But if you go the full 24 hours, at least because big decisions can take longer for sure. You'll your truth will just emerge and it'll be so simple and clear. And it just, it's effortless. And there's none of those like obsessive compulsive regrets. You know, you don't like just go to do it and then you're like, should I have done it, but so really knowing you're, you're, you're with your splint. So I have all three as an example, but so because the emotionals, the most complex and the latest in evolution, I'm supposed to go with that one. Right. So, so if, even if you have all three, listen to them, but you go with the emotion and I can testify, absolutely. From the first day I had my reading 22 years ago, I followed that. Invitation to not make a decision until I'd really slept on it at least 24 hours. And my God, what a difference. And whenever I don't do that, for whatever reason, I'm always like, what am I thinking? So I can. And there's so many [00:32:00] decisions we make every day in our businesses, right? Should I invest in this program or should I launch a new thing? Or should I collaborate with this person? Like there's so many decisions and yeah, I think a lot of people are actually struggling with that. I never quite understood that because yeah, for me, it's just kind of like, I feel it. It's like, yeah, my head starts going yes or, or, or no. And then I just know. But yeah, for, for other authority or strategies, it's kind of like, well, you need to learn how to listen to, yeah, to the, to yourself and, and your voices. Yes. Yeah, there's a, there's another thing that we're, we don't have time to get into here because again, it's so complex, the system, but there's gates and then channels and circuits, and [00:33:00] I'm just wondering if you could pick one or two that are really interesting. Business related maybe more than others and feel free to talk about mine. That has to do with ambition. For example. Oh, okay. Great. Okay. So so what Sarah's referring to. So when you look at human design, you're looking and I think of it as a circuit board. So, so part of what you're looking at is how does the energy flow along the circuits? So if you have an entire channel, like what Sarah's talking about, it means that you have access to this channel all the time. So one of Sarah's important channels, it has to do with the ability to rise in business and the ability to bring new ideas and new concepts to the tribe. So, But by its nature, where it's positioned inside the, the actual body graph is what it's called. It's not connected to an actual energy center. So part of what Sarah's journey is, or is to really help people like that, even every [00:34:00] way she does her thing, she's presenting these ideas, but the people really need to come in and support her. And presenting those ideas like you need to be lifted up. It's like you can bring it out, but they need to come in. They need to participate, right? It's like a, and the more people understand that, that you're there to lead in this way or to initiate, to begin something like to really be like, Hey, we should do marketing better. Or we really need to stop doing this other way. But that's part of people getting that it's collaborative. So they need to come in and help you build it. Right. Which I think so amazing. I really love. Yeah. I love working with your chart. Another important channels, the channel of money, and that goes from the fixed heart center to the throat. And so the channel of money is, I mean, first of all, that's the, you know, every person's person's dream on a certain level, right? They want the channel of money, but the thing about the channel money is that. It's really understanding. So, so the 2 sides of it, each gate, there's 2 gates, and they come together to form a channel. It's kind of like in a relationship. You've got 1 person, 1 person in the [00:35:00] relationships of 3rd entity. So, in the channel of money, 1 side of it is called the King and the Queen. It's like, they're the, that's naturally that gate of the people that naturally just. Own resources on a certain level or they just are in charge, but from birth, not from democracy. That's another channel. But then the other gate is the caretaker of the estate. So the metaphor would be the king owns the land and then the actual caretaker of the state. So, if you have that whole channel by yourself. You actually need to bring in someone else. You need to act like the king or queen and bring in the caretaker. Cause if you try to do both roles, you'll go crazy. Like it's really, you can't do both effectively, but that's part of where partnering, really understanding where you need to bring in a partner to help you execute. And then you can make a ton of money, which is great. Right. And it's so, so, and the, the third one that keeps being like, do me, do me. So this one has to do with, it's from the spleen to the fixed ego, fixed heart center, and it's [00:36:00] all about the ability to sell to the tribe. So it's, this channel has, it's like, okay, we have, so Sarah brings the idea. Then this next channel actually helps pick it up and then it's like, okay, we can sell it for 1295 and this is how, so if you have that channel, you are a born salesperson. You totally know how to frame it, how to connect with people, how to really get them to see that this is important and they should invest their money in it. I mean, even just, it makes me smile. All three of those channels, they're just, they all have such specific functions. Yeah, I love that and, and I, I love how this really, again, brings us back to collaboration and partnership because we, we really, it does take a village to build a business and human design shows that because while I have one of those channels, I don't have the other two. And so that's why I, you know, I keep doing things in community and, and trying to yeah, rise [00:37:00] together. Yeah. And just understanding that it feels like much less heavy on my own shoulders, trying to do it all. I think that's the kind of the biggest takeaways that I've learned from human design. I remember when you did a reading for me, we kept doing these. These signs with our hands going, yeah, less resistance, you know, if you push less, Sarah, you'll get less resistance. And yeah, I keep, you know, remembering that because. It just, yeah, it helps us to become softer with ourselves. I think that's one of the things as well, because we just kind of accept who we are and yeah, tap into our strengths, but also realize that we have things that are just not in our design. And so we need to find partners for them. And that's actually where I love. I've done I love doing business partnership readings for that reason, or teams. [00:38:00] Because really helping them articulate and clarify. Oh, really? This person really is awesome at this, right? You know, and then this, so it really takes away a lot of. It's like that, that humility, like, in the best way, like, oh, I'm really good at this, but I'm not good at this. Right? And I can American culture. We're just taught. You're supposed to be good at everything. Somehow. It's a weakness. If you admit, you don't know something, right? Maybe more universal, but just speaking for my own cultural context. And I've seen with partnerships, especially like, you know, startups or, or people that are really like leading teams, the more they can really trust that they can really give these tasks to this person. And they're going to be much better at it than, you know, than they are. And then like you're saying that sense of relaxation, that sense of really getting to be like that phrase in your zone of genius. Yeah. Right. And that, that joy, and that, that's something that so as a manifesting generator, the, the difference just to, to tie it into the previous is that manifesting generators, they, they have the ability to manifest, but they have to wait [00:39:00] like the generator. So they have an enormous amount of energy, basically, which is what I am and learning to wait and really allow life to initiate me. And then just go for it. First of all, it has been amazing instead of trying to go for it. And then it just is not working. Right. But then second, really seeing the people, like, I have a woman I've consulted with for years. He's got that channel of the stories that knows how to sell it. And she just be like, oh, well, it's like this and this I'm like, genius. You know, instead of me trying to come up with it, where this person's like, oh, this is like breathing. It's so easy. I don't even. See why you'd pay me for this, but like, no, really let me pay you for this because I find very valuable. Right. And I, and it, even you could tell in my voice, it's just such joy. When you feel everybody happy because they're really doing the right thing and then they feel useful and needed and appreciated and yeah, it's, it's, it's the best. It really is the best. So good. I, I [00:40:00] kind of look down at the clock cause I'm like, okay, we need to, you know, kind of wrap it up, but I do want to give people a little preview of what we're going to be talking about on the collab workshop. Another collaboration, right? It's like, Well, I don't know enough to talk about human design. So I'm going to bring in my people with these collab workshops. So, so yeah, tell us a little bit about what we're going to be tackling in the, in the workshop. Great. So, so again, I went and just a serious thing, we know this is complex, but we're doing our best to make it at least palatable for an intro. So, so what we're going to be working on is something called profiles. And so the profiles. They really are even a more targeted, precise way of looking at your design and how your design is meant to interact with the whole. So, like, I'm what's called a 1 3 profile. We're the ones who get the party started. We, we initiate from, like, nothing. Like, we really are meant to. And again, [00:41:00] the metaphor aside of going into the virgin jungle, which I don't think we should be exploiting jungle, but just for metaphor purposes, we're the first person in there and we're the ones with the machete being like, what is this place? So we are just designed to get in there and really be on the front. That other types are designed to come in and then be like, oh, they're going to really survey the land. And then, oh, wait, they're going to be the ones that first pave the road. And then later on the line, the people who come in and really pave it. And then it's so the more you see where you are, like, I'm a true startup person. And the moment it starts to really form is when I need to hand it off. to the next profile, right? So, so we're going to look at, it's based on the hexagram of the I Ching. So the Chinese book of changes over 2000 year old, incredible descriptive system of yin yang theory. And we're going to look at each of the lines in the hexagram. And then we're going to look at how they relate to the different profiles. And it's, it's fat, it's very, it's precise. It's incredibly precise and so liberating to start to [00:42:00] understand your profile. Cause again, like Sarah had already mentioned. There's a lot of ways we get conditioned to try to be what we're not, and we can become highly critical of ourselves, or we can just not understand, well, why am I like this? Or why am I not, you know, especially like your sibling or what, you know, other people, why am I not like this person? But when you know your profile more clearly, not only does it give you the confidence to be yourself, it really shows you where you're going to shine and thrive. So in terms of business, again, like, like I know as a one three, I'm here to really help people begin, you know, and, and that beginning in many ways it spirals. So like, like you beginning to go deeper into human design. So you bring me in. So it's not just a linear idea of like at the very beginning and we never speak again. But I know that I can really help people begin really anything because that's what I'm really good at. Right. Whereas Sarah, you have the ability. So you and I both have the ability to get to the very bottom. That's part of what we love. But Sarah's designed to [00:43:00] universalize the message. So even right now, the fact this is her podcast, she's interviewing me so beautifully, she's doing her role to help her go to a larger audience. It's just so,

Here’s another short episode, a conversation I had with a past participant of the Marketing Like We’re Human, aka the Client Resonator program, Katica Krajinovic. To find out more about the program, go here: http://www.humane.marketing/program

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We’re Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This week we are joined by the Polly Hearsey to explore the transformation of business towards greater consciousness. Polly shares with us how business can act as a form of consciousness, as well as practical steps for businesses to evolve alongside our growing awareness. We discuss ways to collaborate with nature, the benefits of aligning with natural rhythms, and offer valuable advice for solopreneurs and small business owners aiming to make their business more conscious and aligned with their values. Tune in to discover Polly's hopes for the future of conscious business and the crucial role of community and collaboration in this inspiring journey. This conversation aims to inspire and guide heart-centered entrepreneurs towards inner peace to create outer change. Polly and I talked about: How Polly defines Conscious BusinessHow business acts as a form of consciousnessSteps businesses can take to evolve alongside our growing consciousnessWays businesses can collaborate with nature Benefits of aligning with natural rhythms for both business and Mother EarthAdvice for solopreneurs and small business owners to make their business more conscious and aligned with their personal valuesHopes for the future in the realm of conscious business and how we can get thereThe role of community and collaboration in this journeyAnd so much more --- Sarah: [00:00:00] Holly, thank you so much for being here on the Humane Marketing Podcast. It's good to have you with us. Polly: I'm, I'm, I'm so honored to be here. You know, I'm really looking forward to the conversation we're going to have. Thank you so much. Sarah: Me too. Yeah. It's been, it's been a, we've been in touch on, on LinkedIn and kind of seen each other's worlds. Right. Yeah. And then I came across this Not a meditation, but it was on insight timer, a short talk that you posted there about conscious business and, and just how you approach business. And I'm like, ah, now it's time, you know, I have to have her on the, on the podcast, so delighted to have you here. So we're going to be talking about. Conscious business, nature aligned business, kind of like all the things that you love to talk about. And I think that really clearly comes across. It's like, wow, she's passionate about this, right? So, [00:01:00] yeah. So maybe start with explaining what conscious business means to you. What, what all the things that you pack under this umbrella of conscious business. Polly: I, it's an interesting one because I think sometimes when we have terms that are upcoming in, in our world, then they mean so many different things to different people until they, they take on an accepted meaning. So for me, conscious business is really about understanding how we are consciously creating our businesses, how we're consciously contributing through our businesses. And so that takes it in, you know, how do we treat people? How do we treat the, the environment? How do we treat our, Own sense of wellbeing in terms of being an entrepreneur as well, because it's tough to be an entrepreneur and to be a leader of a business. It's, it's hard work and it can be very damaging to your self esteem in some ways, [00:02:00] particularly when you're being asked to do things that you're not comfortable with. I think, well, that's how I have to do it in order to be successful, but I don't like it, but I don't know that there's an alternative way. So I think that, that piece of being. Kind and conscious to yourself is as important to do as it is to be conscious of how you treat other people. And you know, for me that is if you are in a, you know, you are in a product-based business, then it's about your entire supply chain. How, how conscious are you of your entire supply chain? But if you're in a service-based, it's like how conscious are you of the way in which you're structuring your business and you are setting your business up. So there's a lot of sustainability in it, but it's also about why am I doing this? What, why am I, why have I started my business? So that's, that's what I really focus on is helping people understand why they've started their business. What was the driver? Because for the most part, we kind of skirt, skate on the surface a little bit, and we don't think about, you know, what, [00:03:00] what was that sort of like that soul calling that was really going on underneath my decision. And unearthing that so that you can understand that what you really want to do through your business is create a positive impact. And I've found that every time somebody really taps into that well of, of knowledge and knowing, then they come forward with a business that is really positive. So I think that that piece of understanding yourself and what drives you to want to do this. Helps you to discover the make conscious, the subconscious, unconscious reason that you actually started your business. So it means so many different things to me. I Sarah: love it because it's kind of like. Yeah, it's one of these buzzwords, almost nowadays, right? It's like authentic business, conscious business. What does that mean? It's kind of like, is it some people almost like put the spiritual business in there as well. So, so you're [00:04:00] right. It, it does. Depends on, on who you talk to. And it means different things. It sounds like for the two of us, it's, it's very aligned. I wrote down you know, consciousness of yourself, of others and mother nature. So that's what it means to me as well. It's like, first you start with yourself. That's what we do in, in humane marketing. Then you need to look at your relationship to others. Which includes mother nature and you touched upon sustainability and, and, you know, that's obviously a big part of of conscious business. But I actually find that the sustainability only people are often not conscious of who they are and, and themselves and relationship to others. And so it's a lot of, there's actually. It's not a healthy environment. At least it wasn't for me. I was kind of in that sustainably field for a while and I'm like, wow, it's [00:05:00] toxic in here and it doesn't feel good. So I believe it's because they're, they're haven't done so much on their own inner work. What do you think about it? Polly: Yeah, I think so. But also I think that there is a human, very human tendency to think we have a problem here, so I need to get into solution mode. So you get very into your head and you couldn't come up with a solution, but The thing that really strikes me about where business needs to go is that we need to tap into that well of knowing rather than knowledge that comes from our intuitive side. both: Because Polly: when you look at nature, for example, the complexity of the relationships in nature are so mind blowing that we can't approach that logically. It's just, you know, if you, if you think about how interconnected the Siberian tundra is to the Amazonian rainforest. Now, you, what, In a scientific way, we look at those as [00:06:00] isolated, but they're not. We've got these little micro ecosystems and then we've got these global ecosystems. And so I think that in order for us to function effectively as communities, as societies, and to function effectively as life forms on a planet that needs us to act a little bit more responsibly, then we have to tap into that intuitive side. And of course, people who are in a very scientific, logical space both: that Polly: they haven't, it's not, probably not even occurred to them that they need to do that, but they're still doing something positive, but they're not creating a conscious environment. around it. And I think that's where you and I sort of like really see things in the same way, is, is that we need to create a different environment. And that means changing how you think. It means not just changing how you act, you have to change how you feel as well. So you want to come into it with a feeling of self belief, actually, self belief that you can [00:07:00] make a difference. I think that is, that's the key. The number one stumbling block that people have, they have all this energy welling up inside them and there's things that they want to do. But the first big stumbling block is, Oh, can I really make a difference? Sarah: Yeah. And, and those are exactly the people that we need right now to have this courage and boldness to step up and bring and use business as this lever to make a difference, right? Yeah, so true. You. In this talk, you mentioned this shift that, you know, we kind of all, I think a lot of people that I talk to notice that there's some kind of shift going on. They can't really finger point it or they don't exactly know what's going on, but they're like, something is happening. So yeah. Talk to us a little bit about this consciousness shift. And what that means for our businesses and why maybe [00:08:00] so many people are unhappy with their business right now. So I Polly: think, I mean, I have to unwrap it. I mean, it's so, it's so complex, but I do think as we've got more technological and we've become more interconnected, but without the human connection that We've obviously got shorter attention spans. I mean, that's certainly, you know, you'll, you'll hear people talking about that in marketing settings, attention spans are getting shorter. So you need to box everything in and to, you know, get people's attention in shorter periods of time. And I think what is happening is the reaction to that. So it's not being articulated. It's not fully conscious yet. But the reaction to that is we need more meaning. We need more depth. We need more connection. We need more contact. We need to be seen as individuals. We need to be responded to as individuals. And if I look at the business, it's particularly the online business space, it has been absolutely spectacular. paint splattered with [00:09:00] blueprints and do these things and just, you know, this, this is how you do it. And, you know, you guaranteed success if you follow this, this process. I just think everyone's just had enough of that and they're fed up with this not being seen. As who they are. And if they're not being seen, then what they want to create isn't being seen. So I think that to me underpins the shifts, but there are some, you know, there are some very noticeable shifts in by a behavior engagement and interaction. All of that's changed. And I think we are now definitely moving into a space where depth is required. So I've been saying this a lot in my community is saying, The, the push is to go harder, shorter, faster, put out more and more and more and saying reverse that, go deeper, go slower, and you know, you're gonna have a better relationship. So you may not have thousands of likes, you may not have thousands of engagements, but the ones that you have are going to be [00:10:00] completely different quality. both: And I Polly: think that's what happens when you, when you start to believe that you can operate in a different way, you shift the baseline, the baseline of expectation, and that begins to shift the culture. So I think it's like this, we start the whole process from the very bottom, because we are never going to get big corporations to change their minds. We're not going to get governments to change their minds. The only way those are going to change their minds is when they see that everything underneath them has already changed. Sarah: Yeah. So. Yeah, the bottom up movement this time around. Yeah, definitely. I totally agree. I totally agree with the depth as well. And the, the meaning so, yeah, how, how can we then change our businesses? If we do kind of feel this emptiness, how do we change our businesses towards more meaning, towards, you know, more of these human interactions? Yeah, [00:11:00] take us there. Polly: Well, I think in terms of changing the business, the first thing you had, and this is an uncomfortable thing to do. The first thing you have to do, if you just got to the point where I've got so far and now I just feel empty, I'm not really in the game. I don't buy into the label that I've got. It's all feels. Kind of meaningless and I've just been chasing a metric in order to make myself feel successful. The first thing we have to do is actually sort of like unpack the business. The way I look at what I do is it's like, it's almost like take the pieces, take all the pieces apart and have them all there. Because what I've found is that there's Pieces of you that are missing from your business. You know, we all have these experiences. We have these perspectives. We develop these skillsets and we have these interests as well. And we're told to sort of focus and get really specific. But if we take all of the mechanics of our businesses to pieces, almost sort of. Metaphorically, you say, [00:12:00] well, actually there's space for that. That bit of you makes sense. And so taking people back to why that's important to them, what they've learned from it and what they're, what it's, what it's meant to them. how it's shaped them really, helps them to say, Oh, that's why I approached this other bit that I've always been working on in this particular way. So I've worked with a lot of people who've just, they've, they've reached a very high level in their industry and then just gone, no, I can't do it anymore. And they, they want to, they want to burn their businesses down at that point. And it's like, you don't need to burn it down because everything that you've learned is valid moving forward. You might not use it in the same way, but it shaped you in some way. And I think that's, that's one of the ways that we start. And the other thing is, I think it is really important to reflect on. How your business is functioning within your community, functioning within the business community is a wider thing. So it's interesting. I've listened to a few talks and sort of like round [00:13:00] tables on the shifts that are happening recently. And what I found really interesting from some of the big names, they'd be, you know, that we're talking sort of like. You know, quite established, large revenue businesses, but they're talking about unraveling it a lot. They've got these big teams, everything's automated and they're going, I need to unravel it. I need to actually start talking to people and making space to have those conversations. And they actually don't know how to do that. The beauty of it is if you're a bit smaller, is that you can, and you haven't got a large team and you haven't got a load of mechanics, That you need to sort of like account for and pay for, then you can actually start to do that through your philosophy, through your ethos. So that's one of the things I really work a lot with people on is their value system. both: Because if Polly: you've got your value system, it changes how you approach the whole creative process in business. And then you start to say, well, actually I can create anything I want to, I don't have to follow the model. [00:14:00] And that, I think, you know, coming back to self belief being one of the, the first stumbling blocks, the second one is, can I really do things completely differently? Yeah, you can, you can. Sarah: Yeah. And you mentioned big names, right? I think the last 15 years, that's all we've ever done, or most people have done. It's like, oh, there's these, you know, we can probably count them on two hands. These are the ones who made it. So now we need to all. Create the businesses just like them, and this is how it's done. And they'll sell you the 2, 000 course in, in how it's done. And yet those are the ones who are now, you know, they're not sharing it openly, but yeah, they're kind of hinting at the unraveling things and they're like, huh, people are not buying my online course anymore. I wonder why, you know, people Polly: don't want any more information. They've had too much Sarah: human connection in these courses. Right. So. Yeah. It's, it's so [00:15:00] interesting. There is Polly: definitely a slide happening, some of the big names are struggling to, you know, some of the, some of them are still doing really well. I mean, and for, for many of us, they would be like, still be very happy to be doing as well as they are at the moment, but they, of Sarah: course, but they also have much higher overhead. Oh yes. I mean, you know, they have insane neighborhoods, a lot of spendings and, and so they're now struggling with, you know. Yeah, Polly: yeah, yeah. And I, I think a very light agile business is important now. Ah, yeah. 'cause you're more responsive, much freer. If you can bootstrap a s a solution to something, then bootstrap it. Why get yourself anchored into spending hundreds, maybe thousands of pounds or euros or dollars a year. To have systems there that you don't actually need to have. Right. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, I mean, it, it really depends on what you want for your business. And I do think, I was thinking about this this morning again, is [00:16:00] like this constant stuff, like you must hit six figures, you must hit seven figures, you may go multi seven figures or whatever. both: Right. Polly: And you just go, it, it's a nonsense statement. Right. Because if you take, Somebody hitting six figures in Australian dollars, they're earning significantly different to somebody hitting six figures in US dollars. And for us in the UK, it means doing twice what somebody in Australia is doing to, to, to get that. So it's a complete nonsense, but also takes no account of the cost of living in different countries. And so the benchmarks that we have, it's like, why do we have them? Yeah. They mean nothing. Right. It's so important to say, this is my business, this is what's important to me. And you'll never be able to do that unless you actually stop and say, who am I? What am I here to do? And who do I want to help? Sarah: Mm. Exactly. Polly: Three very simple questions. How do Sarah: I define success if it's not [00:17:00] the money part anymore, right? What is success for me? What does my life what I want my life to look like? How do I want to spend my days? My weeks? You know, yeah. What kind of metrics can I find there that are not money related? Polly: It's Sarah: interesting, Polly: isn't it? Because so many people talk about, Oh, let me show you how to get to your first job. five figure week or whatever, and that's all they talk about. And yet, if you ask a question to people about what does success mean to you, they won't say it's about money. Like one in a hundred will say it's money. Most will say it's about me feeling that I can express myself. It's feeling fulfilled, feeling like I'm making an impact, feeling like I'm helping people. So if that's what really matters to people, why are we still selling them ways to make money? Why aren't we selling them ways to find themselves? and express themselves and feel happy. Sarah: Yeah. And traditionally also people who have more money have [00:18:00] less time, which also feels like a really silly thing to strive for. It's like, well, you know, what if I don't even have time to spend that money anymore? It's like, what's the point? That story of, Polly: The fishermen on the beach with the executive. It's just like classic, it's like go all the way around in a circle. It's like, well, yeah, and I'm here exactly where I need to be without a fleet of fishing boats. Sarah: Exactly. Yeah. I, I tell the same story with an olive tree growth keeper in, in Sicily in the marketing like for human books. So same idea just with all of trees. Right. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, I totally agree with all of that. Let's, let's go and. You know, I just imagined what I want my life to look like. And immediately what come to me, came to mind is, well, nature outside. I want to be more outside. So let's head a little bit in that direction, [00:19:00] because that's also something you talk about is how to align your business with nature. So what do you work on with clients there? Polly: Well, it's an interesting one because I'm still, I don't think I'll ever feel that I've. Got a full understanding of what I'm doing that and I've got okay with that, but because I'm always going to learn a little bit more, but it's really about sort of like learning who we are in nature, learning how nature works, not to mimic it, but to remember that we are nature and therefore that we operate according to natural principles. There are no business. Principles that, you know, in the mainstream that are natural, they are all completely imposed and nature never thrives when you impose something on it, it always needs to come from within. So I think that's another thing. It's like bringing that process of coming from within. So I love sending, sending my clients out [00:20:00] into nature with their business questions, because if you just want to sit in a, in a quiet space with the thing that is bothering you the most, And then just look around a bit and see what solutions nature comes up with. You just go, okay, yeah, there's different ways of doing it. So it can be as simple as that, but also thinking about, you know, how do like in my membership, we were coming into a new season. We're going to be working on the voice and working with nature. So be working with the bullfinch, which is one of the finches and that, you know, they're renowned for their songs. And if you think about bird song, birds have functional calls and they have Aesthetic calls, you both: know, Polly: say, and we, we think of the voice as being something functional, or we think of the voice as being something aesthetic, but you know, there, there are two sides to that. So it's like learning lessons as simple as that, but what's the aesthetic of your voice? What's the function of your voice? How do you [00:21:00] balance function and aesthetic? Because there's no two, you can't mistake two different birds. Well, you probably can, but you know, the bird calls something, something as simple as that is profoundly influential in terms of how you think about it. And that's, that's where I'm playing at the moment. But I do have this belief that businesses can become part of the ecosystem. So at the moment we have this sustainability sort of like, I need to mitigate the impact of my business. on the environment. I believe that it's possible, and I don't know how yet, but I believe it's possible for businesses to become part of the ecosystem. But I do know that it comes back to who you are. and remembering your nature and remembering how to work with nature at an individual level in order that makes that possible. Does that make sense? Yeah. And that's part of the, [00:22:00] the knowing piece, knowing that that's possible, but also appreciating that I have absolutely no idea what that looks like yet. You sort of get little glimpses, glimpses of it. But You know, I have a client who, who makes bark flower essences and their space around the, where they make them, and it's not a factory, it's, you know, it's a very small, small unit, but the space around them is managed in a very particular way where it feels like the entire manufacturing and office space is part of that. So there's sort of like hints at, at that, but you know, I have an online business. What does that mean for me? both: And Polly: it means, how do I bring nature into my business? How do I contribute to nature through my business? And that's not, I do think that sort of like philanthropy and things like that. I'm not dissing it in any way. But I think that's a fix for [00:23:00] compensation, whereas we can be contributing in a very conscious way. Sarah: I love, I love your questioning because clearly if you would just say, well, here are the seven steps, you know, I would probably go, yeah, I don't know about that. So it's, again, I think everyone has to find out in a way for themselves, but they have to be open. To receiving the message and for example, what you just shared about the bird song. I, yeah, I don't know that I knew about the bird having two kinds of songs. So that, yeah, that's just kind of like, oh, that's really interesting. And then what I thought of is like, What I share about in the, in my marketing, like we're human program, we look at the marketing techniques that are unique for each individual. Right. And so people, some people will, will, [00:24:00] and we also look at the human design a little bit. And so some people will want to use their voice. Because maybe other people have told them, you have a nice voice or, you know, it's like you have this soothing voice or whatever. Like they just know that they want to use their voice. And, and so we, we, you know, we say, Oh, maybe you have a podcast or maybe you do videos or like, it's like, yeah, that is somehow, I guess. Related to nature, because it's how you are built, how, you know, your design is built. You were given a nice voice, and so why not use it in your, in your marketing, both: for Sarah: example. Yeah, absolutely. Polly: The thing that I come back to all the time is that nature, life is diversity. both: Right. Polly: There isn't one solution to everything. So I look at things like electric cars and just go, well, this clearly, we're not [00:25:00] listening to nature because nature does not have one solution across the entire globe. It has different solutions in different places. And that to me is a massive lesson for business that says that we need diversity in the business place. If we're going to see people as individuals and respond to people as individuals, then we need diversity in our businesses, diverse business models, diverse focuses, diverse niches, whatever. So we need to remember, and I think that's what we go to is nature, to learn that, is to learn how to be creative. Right. Yeah. I mean, we, we are on a rock floating in space that producing the most extraordinary diversity of life. And we forget that we're part of that diversity of life and that we're all individuals and all unique. And, you know, you look at any, any plant on the planet. You know, and there might be [00:26:00] thousands and thousands of the same plant, but they're not the same plants. They're individuals within that. And that's kind of, to me, is remembering that every, everything on, in, on this earth is an individual. And it has a, however you want to phrase it, it has a consciousness, it has an energy, it has a presence. in the whole, and we need to learn to value that. And I think anything that I can do to help people see what they'd never seen before is, is really helping because we, do we look that closely? You know, we got plant blindness. We look Sarah:

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We’re Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

In this week’s episode we sit down with Anne Rajoo to explore the concept of Peaceful Productivity. Anne shares the necessary mindset shifts to move from constant busyness to a more serene and effective work approach. We delve into practical strategies for identifying needle-moving actions, delegating tasks, and removing distractions, as well as essential advice for setting and maintaining boundaries between work and rest. Anne also highlights the importance of self-care in sustaining productivity and offers her recommended practices. Additionally, we cover how delegation can future-proof your business and how to view a Virtual Assistant as an investment in growth and peace rather than a cost. This episode aims to inspire and guide quietly rebellious entrepreneurs towards being more efficient while maintaining peace of mind, in line with humane marketing principles. In this episode we talked about: Anne's definition of Peaceful ProductivityThe necessary mindset shifts to move from constant busyness to peaceful productivityStrategies for identifying needle-moving actions and delegating or removing distractionsAdvice for setting and maintaining boundaries between work and restThe importance of self-care in sustaining productivity, and recommended practicesHow delegation can help future-proof our businessesShifting perspective to see a VA not as a cost, but as an investment in growth and peaceAnd so much more -- Peaceful Productivity Sarah: [00:00:00] Hello, Humane Marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non pushy. I'm Sarah Zanacroce, your hippie turned business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama bear of the humane marketing circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you're ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like minded people. Quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what works and what doesn't work in business. Then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a zoom circle workshop. To hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way. We share with transparency and vulnerability what works for us and what doesn't work, so that you can figure out what works for you, instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at Humane dot marketing forward slash circle. And if you prefer one on one support from me, my humane business coaching could be just what you need, whether it's for your marketing sales, general business building, or help with your big idea, like writing a book, I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15 years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my mama bear qualities as my one on one client. You can find out more at humane. marketing forward slash coaching. And finally, if you are a marketing impact pioneer and would like to bring humane marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website at humane. marketing. Welcome back friends. Today I'm talking to Anne Rajoux about peaceful productivity. I put it under partnership because you're either partnering with yourself to be more productive or you're delegating some tasks and partnering with someone else. Before I tell you a bit more about Anne, just a quick plug and reminder that if you're listening to this on the day that it comes out, June 28th, you have two more days to take advantage of the 400 off with the super early bird for the Marketing Like We're Human [00:03:00] program. As of June August 22nd, I'll take another cohort through my flagship program that goes really deep into creating your foundational marketing clarity by starting with yourself and bringing more of you to your marketing. And that's actually not just for Beginning entrepreneurs, often the people who come to the program, they're already two or three years in, because it's something that we kind of don't have time when we're first starting out. We're just putting quickly our website together and, you know, then immediately go on Facebook or LinkedIn or Instagram. And we forget about that foundational clarity, especially making sure that it. It comes from within. It comes from who we are. So it really is a transformational program that helps you grow into that person that achieves the goals that you set yourself. People ask me about the outcomes. [00:04:00] Yes. You know, it's about resonance with clients and yes, you will get more clients because you grow into that person that can get more clients. So it's about marketing, but it's so much more. It's so much deeper. Have a look at the details humane dot marketing forward slash program and you find an orange button there to book a call with me Do that as soon as possible Again, if you're listening before June 30th You should get the 400 off and if you're listening to this in July, you still benefit from the early bird, which is 200 of the group rate and of course if you're Since you're listening to this podcast, you're really already familiar with the seven Ps and that's what we go into depth in, and it's a hybrid program, so there's a, a video piece to the program with extensive workbooks. I've worked on this program for a whole year in 2019, ran through it with three [00:05:00] beta groups, so it's a solid. Really a solid program. And you can see that in the case studies and testimonials that you find on this page. I'd love to have you in the group. I think if you're listening to this podcast, you know what humane marketing is all about. You know that, you know, we're creating change and to create that change, well, you need to bring it out there into your marketing, your worldview, your values, more of you, all of that. Okay, back to Anne. So Anne is a creative force behind peaceful productivity with the goal to guide dynamic and ambitious women on a journey towards a mindful mastery of work and life, reshaping the way we perceive productivity. Additionally, she's the founder of virtual Virtufully a boutique launch VA agency that empowers female entrepreneurs to introduce their products, services, and [00:06:00] programs in a peaceful yet impactful way with support, compassion, and integrity. Anne's dream of living an extraordinary life has brought her from a tiny village in East Germany to London and eight years ago to Mauritius, where she lives with her husband and two boys. She's on a mission to join forces to redefine success and create a harmonious blend of professional achievement and success. And personal fulfillment and, and I talked about humane business and, you know, what that means for her. And I'm going to include her story in, in the new book that's coming up. And then from there. We're like, she, she was telling me about peaceful productivity and you can tell from the bio that our worldviews are just so much aligned. So in this episode, we talked about Anne's definition of peaceful productivity, the necessary mindset shifts to move from [00:07:00] constant busyness to peacefulness. To peaceful productivity strategies for identifying needle moving actions and delegating or removing distractions advice for setting and maintaining boundaries between work and rest, the importance of self care in sustaining productivity and recommended practices, how delegation can help future proof our businesses, and then shifting perspective to see a VA not as a cost, but But as an investment in growth and peace, I hope you'll enjoy this episode as much as Anne and I enjoyed recording it. Hi Anne, how are you? It's so good to have you on the podcast. Anne: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here, Sarah. Sarah: Yeah, it's lovely to have you. And this, as we were sharing before we hit record this topic of peaceful productivity, I think [00:08:00] it's just so needed right now. You and I had a little conversation about the third book that I'm writing about business, like we're human and how that really fits in with peaceful productivity. Right. And that's why I, I wanted to have this conversation with you. So why don't you start by sharing how you define peaceful productivity? Like, what does that Anne: mean for you? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is, it's so interesting. It's, it's still very much an evolving concept and journey for myself, but really it's, it's this intersection between the doing and creating the output and achieving the goals that we've set, creating the input that we're here in the world to, to create, but also maybe not doing as much and doing more in the sense of enjoying life and enjoying the moment, being present, really tuning into what lights [00:09:00] me up and what are things that I don't really like to do or want to do and, and, and focusing on this mix. Yes. Okay. We, we have to create some sort of work and maybe have a routine and, and have some outcome, but at the same time, there's more to being productive than just showing, oh, I hit my goals. I've ticked the boxes. I've crossed out all the to do's on my list, because at the end of the day, if we don't have that balance, Then we often hit burnout. So many people have gone through that. I've gone through that myself several times. So it's this mixture of the doing that being, and, and just changing the mindset about what it means to be productive. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. I love that so much. And I think there's, there's so much pressure. On this productivity, you know, yes, you were sharing just before that you were in a corporate job. And so there's the, that kind of [00:10:00] pressure there where, you know, productivity is linked to how you climb up the ladder, but then funnily enough, most entrepreneurs then take that with them into entrepreneurship. Right. And it's not like we say, Oh, now I'm, I'm my own boss and now I can, you know, decide how I'm going to be productive. No, we still have this idea of, no, I need to work at least eight, if not 10 hours per day and do all of these things. So. It's, it's so true. It's really this mindset shift that we, we need to, we need to make in order to, yeah, make it a peaceful productivity. So yeah, it's so, so, so relevant. So how do you feel with the work that you're doing with, with your clients? How do you feel about the societal shift? Pressure, like, does that come over in your conversations with clients? Is that a thing that they often mention? Anne: Yeah. I [00:11:00] mean, it's really often conversations of like, and there's just too much to do. I have all these ideas. I have all these other responsibilities. Most of my clients are moms who have a business and it's just, it's constantly feeling like there is not enough time in the day. There's too many things to do. There's all this pressure of like, Oh, Business should be done in this certain way, because that's how people are used to doing business. You've got to show up consistently, and you have, it's all these halves that we, we see elsewhere, and, and you work with people, I mean, like, I mean, I'm totally into coaching, and I have. Support and all of that. But quite often I feel like a lot of people also kind of get a bit confused with, you should be doing it like this and that's the process. And if you don't do it, then you do it wrong or you're not going to achieve the outcome. And it's all these like mixed messages that we receive. And then that in a [00:12:00] sense of like, it's not working for me. This is not the life that I want to build. This is not why I came into business. And it's, it's a lot of that, like feeling. Overwhelmed, feeling like just constantly too much to do, not knowing where to start, and then feeling quite confused. And yeah, it was so You know, going, going down on, on yourself, like a lot of women have that tendency of being quite negative. They're just not working hard enough. Or today you took too much time to clean the kitchen instead of doing that thing. And like all that inner talk that we have. And that's a lot of conversations that I hear. And a lot of women are pretty fed up with that constant inner dialogue. And this feeling of like just never achieving. Or never Coming up to that level of the expectations they have on themselves or also that society has on them And just yeah, not feeling like they holding up with that Grand image [00:13:00] that we we should represent today that women can do so many things and we couldn't do it all We have it all and they don't feel like that really Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. So, so many things you said resonated. It's this idea of the shoulds and and I've also this idea of perfectionism. What comes up for me also in the entrepreneurial world is this image that everything should be free. You know, we should have all these free things and free content and content creation, content columns. All of this stuff. Production that we're creating that is not paid time and that over the last 15 years has been kind of Like put in the spotlight as that's just how you are supposed to run a business as an entrepreneur. And when you kind of counter position that with someone who is in a paid job, it, it, it's, it's like, if you think about it, it's [00:14:00] crazy how much time as entrepreneurs, we are supposedly just being productive for free compared to someone who has a paid job. Right. Right. And I think that's part of also my revolution in terms of the humane business, humane marketing, it's like, Well, who says we have to spend all of this time for free productivity, right? Like I can, I'm my own boss, you're your own boss. So we decide where it ends. Yes, obviously it's a good thing and I still am for that, that there's free offers. But, but there's a limit to it because otherwise we burn out. So right now we're, we're hosting this expo in the humane marketing circle, and it's kind of like a summit. But when you look at these other summits out there and you then talk to the summit hosts after the summit, they're all exhausted and burned [00:15:00] out. I know because I've been there, like I've hosted five summits. You too. And it's exhausting and it's all for free. And it's like, in the end, also when you ask them, honestly, what did you get up? Yes. Lots of contacts, but not really, you know, the money equation doesn't always really work out. So it's just kind of like questioning all our assumptions, I guess as well. Right. So having that conversation, like you said. Well, is this working for you? And if it isn't, how are you going to do it differently? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Anne: Yeah. For me, this brought up so many more societal thoughts there as well, because obviously as women, we are, we are often raised to give, you know, to take care of other people, again, give free content, give. Free, whatever it is. And also this whole money mindset thing. A lot of women struggle with me included, you know, like how much is my home, but what's my worth, [00:16:00] how much can I charge and what's too much. And I want to be accessible to many people because I want to change the world. I mean, this is a lot of conversations I have, and that goes in my, my own dialogue as well, and I want to make it. Available for the greater good, but then at the end of the day, yeah, the time and money equation doesn't always work out very well. So those things and again, it's like sometimes you have to be a bit rebellious in your sense to be like, okay, yeah, this is I see a lot of people do it. Like this, it's not working for me. I've got to do it differently. And that can be uncomfortable Sarah: and Anne: challenging to actually go and do it. But this is exactly what, why I came up with peaceful productivity because yes, I love being productive, but the way I've been doing it was just not working at all. So something was missing and that's the peaceful part. And like, just what you described in the marketing world as well, it's not always working properly and it can definitely be improved and changed. Sarah: [00:17:00] I want to go into, you know, your framework of the peaceful productivity, but beforehand I just also want to mention a book that we both love which is essentialism by Greg McCown. It's still my absolute favorite business book. And, and you said you loved it as well. So, so what kind of. takeaways have you implemented from that book or what were your main aha moments from reading that book? Anne: I think for me it was really bridging this thing of, okay, I've got, I'm, I'm very multi passionate and very multi skilled and I have, and I enjoy having lots of projects going on, but at the same time, always refocusing on like, What's the day to day? How do I feel? And what's really essential to making another step towards the goal and always bringing myself back to that is that really? Should I really be doing that? And something that I've really learned through my work where [00:18:00] I'm also running a virtual assistance agency is like looking at like, what am I doing? And is that really my job? Or is there someone else better suited for that? And how can I use my time better? And for me that spills into my life as well. As a mom of two children I spend a lot of time with my children because that's how, my choice that I'm making. But it's also sometimes, you know, Going back, is it essential for me to be right there with them focused, or is it okay for them to do whatever they're doing, even if it's on the tablet for a little bit, so that I can do my work? It's like really always tuning in. Is it essential? I love the word essential, and then just really looking at the things I'm doing, and then getting rid of the stuff that is not essential. Like really getting rid of it, removing it entirely, or piling it up somewhere else for that time, when it's the right time to look at these things. Sarah: Yeah, yeah. I love that. And it's similar for me. I love how you differentiated, you know, [00:19:00] business and work to me. It's almost like. They've become one. So it's like the, the, the essential things that I say yes to in work always need to align with the essential things in, in, in my personal life. Right. And so it's very similar to, to what you shared. And I think the one thing also that I take away from that. So it's, it's a, it's very much about decision making. This book is helping you with, like, every time you need to make a decision in your business or in your life, you're going to go back to, is this essential? And I think what he shares also, it's, it's quite easy to, or it's, it gets easier with time to say no to the non essential things. But when you're really mastering it is when you can say no to even things that do matter to you, but you just know that right now is not the right time. Right. And so that's what you said [00:20:00] before. It's like, okay, put them to another folder or like, not now, but, but later or never like, or never because you just know, no, this is not my thing. Not in this lifetime. Exactly. Yeah. True. Yeah. Wonderful. Okay. Well, let's move on to your framework of peaceful productivity. Tell us a little bit about how you work with people through this idea of being more productive, but in a peaceful way. Anne: Yeah. So for me, a peaceful productivity has three pillars. One is the productivity tools, hacks, techniques, whatever you want to call them, all these You know, applications to Pomodoro technique, finding your high performance time, like we all different in like, some people work better in the morning. Some people work better later in the afternoon or evening, like really looking at, you know, what are the [00:21:00] things that work for me, trying some on for size and see what fits and then letting go of others, because not, not one technique works for everyone. Also like looking at what phase in your life are you in, what, what You know, what does your day look like and how can you make it more productive using the tools and techniques that are available? And then there's the mindset, which is a lot of what, what we just talked about, the societal beliefs that we have, you know, ingrained in us, the beliefs That we have developed over time, like, you know, often attaching our well value and worth to our output and looking at what's there that maybe is not working quite well and what's there that we maybe have to change. And then the third pillar is creativity, because for me, creativity is essential. Personally, I get a lot of energy from doing something creative, so it could really be doing the creative stuff and being like drawing and making, but you don't have to be an artist. So really. [00:22:00] Identify yourself as a creative. The creativity can also be in terms of, let's try something different. Let's play around with what we have. Today looks like that. What technique can I put in here? What mindset will I look at today? And just piling it up in a big, You know, pot and mixing it up and just be creative about it and see what the outcome is problem solving. Obviously, we all mostly know that creativity helps with problems problem solving. So it's that part of like playful and just trying things that maybe you haven't tried before because that's when things could shift like, Oh, Interesting. That was actually quite nice. And I didn't expect that to work so well for me. Let's do, let's focus on that and let's hone in on that. So it's really these three elements. And I work with, with clients, mostly one on one where we have a sort of audit or assessment of like, what's there right now, going in all the different pillars that I've just mentioned. Then we [00:23:00] come together, we have a conversation, we share some, You know, thoughts and tips that I have gained over the period of time that I've been doing that and I help my clients to implement then because obviously we have a lot of knowledge, but if we don't go and You know, find a way to have that going on a daily basis. Not, not much is going to change. So it's that process of like identify what's happening right now, see what can be changed and improved and then implementing and refining. And that's my camera gone again, because you're back. Sarah: That's yeah, that's, that's great. I love how you combine the doing. Or, or more like the. The left brain, which is the tools and the strategies with the right brain, which is the creativity, right? Because I think kind of in the traditional way that I've seen people talk about productivity, it's mainly like. Left brain, it's like, you know, Excel spreadsheets [00:24:00] in that kind of more, yeah, left brain approach. And I love how you bring in the creativity, which makes it much more fun for your clients to, yeah, to be productive. I love that. Yeah. Can you, maybe you mentioned the Pomodoro technique. Can you maybe, well, for people who don't know what that is, share about that. And then maybe you have one other strategy that you, or tool that, that you usually give clients and would like to share here. Anne: Yeah, sure. Yeah. So Pomodoro is this concept of you work for a stretch of, I believe, 20 minutes, and then you take a break and then you go back to work and you take a break and so on and so on. And, and theoretically you would put on a timer and you literally just have that chunk of work. time to work, which is interesting because what really happens is that if we allow an hour for a task, the task likely is going to take an hour. If we say, okay, I only have 20 minutes to work on this. We, we [00:25:00] actually might achieve that task in the 20 minutes, or we break it down in different chunks because our brain needs that break. The mistake that a lot of us make, and I still sometimes make, is that we try to focus so hard and really just work through it and push through the job at hand so that we can take it off the to do list, but our brain doesn't quite work so well, so we get into these dips of focus time and Performance and that's when taking little breaks in between really increases the brain function and the work that we can achieve. So personally, I don't do the Pomodoro technique. I work more in 90 minutes chunks because that's kind of works better for my, for my day and how it's set up because my day is very split into morning work, afternoon kids and a little bit of evening, evening work. But yeah, it's again, it's like this. I've tried the Pomodoro. I didn't quite like it. I find the 90 minutes a bit better for me. But then the other thing that I [00:26:00] really enjoy and that has changed a lot for me is the whole idea of making a plan. I'm a planner. That's what I am, who I am. And I love spreadsheets. But I, I don't like making a whole year of plan has never worked for me because I would lose track and would be like, Oh yeah. You know, I still have six months until December. I'll do it one day and then I never got to do it. But now I really, I look at three month planning chunks, and then I create a monthly plan, a weekly plan. Yeah, monthly, weekly. And I have my daily like morning rituals where I sit down and I look at the week and I'm like, okay, what am I going to do today? And it's breaking it down and taking the intentional time. I mean, that's like 5 to 10 minutes per day, maybe where I really look at the planning side of things. And I select. The top three priorities that are kind of my non negotiables for the day and then a few other things that [00:27:00] I think I could chunk in. And I always have three sort of self care, creative, joyful things that I put on my list because again, that part is really, really important to feel peaceful. But that really has helped me so much of not feeling this constant, Oh, what am I doing today? Hey, where am I even going to start? Where was where was I with this project? And then at the end of the month you kind of look at the things you've done and like yeah I've done a lot. I've worked a lot, but I didn't actually achieve the goal that I was set to achieve and that's happened to me a lot of like constantly working but not getting to where I wanted to get because I lost sight of What's the plan? So yeah, that's really powerful for me Sarah: Yeah, I love that so much. And I have a similar approach with the, you know, breaking down the months. For me it's more like because of my, my, the way I run my programs. So it's very much backwards planning from day one. Okay, [00:28:00] here's where I run my program, what needs to happen to leading towards that program, and then everything daily and weekly activities run around these programs. Right? And, and so I, I really agree with that, that we need to always be, and, and I, on my, on my daily planner. I have like the top one says the big goal, you know, it's like, this is, yeah, this is what I'm working towards. And, and, and then be reminded of that because yeah, otherwise you're constantly putting out fires and, you know, spending tons of times in email without actually getting to anywhere. And what I like also about having those three, sometimes it's four priorities of the day. Then when you have reached these priorities and I tried to always not make them like this big giant thing that I know I cannot accomplish in a day, then, you know, you [00:29:00] can actually turn off the computer after these three or four things. Right. And then that feels good where otherwise you never actually feel like you've done enough because you haven't given yourself a container. So, yeah, I love that very much. What you shared. And then. The, the, the peaceful parts, the, you know, self care things. I do have, no, I don't have that. I have a mantra on mine, which I sometimes kind of just kind of give myself a little, you know, energy boost, but, but I like the way how you say, okay, what, what kind of fun thing I'm, am I doing that's actually on my Google calendar, I always have my, I go for a daily walk. That's blocked out or I have the gym. So, so, but I, I'll add them on that, on that daily printout as well. I like that. I love Anne: the ticking off, you know, like I've done it and I need to write it down on my list because I'm that kind of person who will first thing, drop all the, the fun and the, the, the [00:30:00] self care things because I'm so much like, Oh, I want to make, like, I just love what I'm doing. And I love. Creating in that way that I'm the first to forget, like to walk and to eat and I need to write it down on the list to make sure that, you know, I remind myself, this is also very important. This is important Sarah: to you. Yeah, yeah, it's wonderful. You mentioned earlier that you're also running a virtual assistant business or agency, right? So. In a way that probably fits into this conversation very well, because what we just shared is all about being productive, but also kind of demonstrating. Well, you can't do it all right. Like, there's just so much. to do to run a business that it's actually a very smart thing to work with someone else who enjoys doing the small things that you don't have time to. And so that's what, what [00:31:00] you're doing also with your VA business. I do feel that I, I do. I feel like that's one of the things that I did right from the get go. I've been working with VAs for 15 years. There's so many things I didn't do, but that one I did well. And yet I, I still find a lot of resistance from entrepreneurs because they see it as an expense, right? And it is. You know, yes, you have to have the money, but it's this chicken and the egg thing. Like, you know, when do I have enough money? And so, yeah, talk to us about that, how we can shift this mindset for people do not see it as an expense, but as an investment in their business. Yeah, exactly. Anne: Totally. I mean, the investment really is in. Your own time and buying back your own time. So if you feel that there's just too much to do, I have all these great ideas, but I never have enough time. Well, then [00:32:00] it's perfect to invest. And it doesn't have to be a full time role and, and, you know, one VA doing hours and hours of work. VAs can work for just a few hours a week and they can take off a few things off your plate that really you don't have to do because they don't require you as the person, as the face of your business. To execute that task, especially the admin things. I mean, I, I really don't enjoy admin. So I definitely give that to BAs. I've always have, because it's just not what I enjoy. And why would I want to spend my precious energy and precious time on the things that I don't like doing? This is exactly what I used to do in a corporate job where you just had to do it because your boss told you, well, now I have the Freedom as the boss of myself to decide which task I do and which task I give to the team. But is this resistance of like, okay, it's going to cost me money. Is the person really going to do it as well as I can, because I'm, you know, I have my certain way and I have my [00:33:00] very high standards. That's the perfectionist that comes through in a lot of people. But at the end of the day, you don't like, again, you don't necessarily give away the very precious task. You give away some tasks that are. Necessary to run your business. They are not what you have to do as like your expertise, your skill. And there's someone else who can probably do it better, faster, and who enjoys it. Like you said, there's people who enjoy these kinds of things versus you might just be really good at something else. And it doesn't have to be many hours. I mean, this is also the perception that, okay, I've got to give a VA a stable number of hours, a stable task. It could be a VA who comes in for a certain project. For example, I don't know, for your book writing, I'm sure there is tasks that you don't do on a daily basis, but you do it because you have your book to create, and then the VA can support you on a project, and then next month you don't work with the VA. It's all possible. It's just a way of, a question of reaching out and [00:34:00] finding the right person. Sarah: Right. I think maybe it's a little bit about this fear. Well, how am I going to find the right person? Right. And, and then I, I do remember in the early days, I've had, you know, You know, many experiences that didn't work out, but in a way,

This is the fifth episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We’re Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

In this new episode, Jayne Warrilow joins us to talk about the essential role of trust in humane marketing and business. We explore why self-trust is the foundation of all other forms of trust, especially for entrepreneurs navigating challenging times. Jayne shares insights on how trust shapes a business's reputation and client relationships, offering practical steps to enhance trustworthiness. We also discuss the journey of becoming a trusted authority in your field, and how confidence and courage play crucial roles in this transformation. Join us to discover how making trust your competitive advantage can elevate your business in the world of compassionate entrepreneurship. In this conversation they talked about: What trust has to do with Humane Marketing and Humane Business Why self-trust is the foundation of all other forms of trust in business and how entrepreneurs can build and maintain self-trust, especially in challenging times How trust influences a business's reputation and client relationships, and what measures businesses can take to ensure they are seen as trustworthy How entrepreneurs can discover and embrace their calling to become a trusted authority in their field How confidence and courage influence the perception of authority and trustworthiness, and what strategies entrepreneurs can use to build confidence in their industry A sneak peek of what Jayne will cover in our Collab workshop on July 3rd --- Sarah: [00:00:00] Hi Jane, it's wonderful to be with you again today. Jayne: Oh, Sarah. It's such an honor to be with you. I'm really looking forward to our conversation today. Sarah: Yeah, me too, because trust. Oh my God, we could talk about this for like hours and hours, right? So such an important topic. And I think specifically for you and I, I've known each other for a long time. And we're very much value aligned and wanting to create businesses for the long term and helping our clients create their life's work and businesses for the long term. So yeah, trust just seems this kind of, I have to admit for me, it was kind of just this like given it's like, yeah, obviously that's part of the thing, but people do wonder. You know, how do you create trust and so that's why you and I talked and I'm like, yeah, it'd be great if you could come in and talk to us about that, because you have spent [00:01:00] a lot of time thinking about that deeply and came up with frameworks and and you'll share some of that with us. And I'm super excited. But let's start with kind of the foundational question. Like, why do we need to trust when we want to create a business and also maybe what does that have to do with creating a sacred business like you call it or a humane business like I call it? Yeah. Jayne: It's a really interesting question because just like you said at the beginning, Sarah, I think so many of us Take trust as a given, you know, if we're a good human in the world, you know, we're taught from a very young age to be kind and, you know, be kind to our neighbors and, you know, treat other people as we'd like to be treated ourselves. And most of us go out into the world with that kind of energy. And that I've used that word energy very specifically here, because in a way, trust is invisible. It's not something that's [00:02:00] tangible that you can see that you can, you know, Have on your business dashboard and measure necessarily how you're doing. There's data that points to it for us, but really it's such a, there's layers to trust, you know, and and what it really means for us. For me, what I've learned over the many years that I've been working with business and leaders is it's actually the foundation of everything. And it's not just the foundation of business because more and more as I get older, Like life and business are integrating together in a way. And it's so interesting, you know, like there's many of us that will have been to business school and we've learned leadership theories. We've learned business theories. We've learned what it takes to be successful in business today. But one of the things that I noticed in my reflections is I look back at like my time in business school. Nobody ever taught me to be kind. Or compassionate or the things that actually [00:03:00] come about building trust in the world. And at the end of the day, I think somewhere along the way, we've, we've somehow forgotten the fact that business is deeply relational it's about. Humans. Yes. It's also about technology today. So when I talk about relationships, it's not just about relationships between people, which of course you need, you need really good, solid, foundational relationships to make, you know, to be successful as both a leader and in, in your business. But also it's about kind of the relationship with technology. Okay. Your relationship with your business, your relationship with yourself, trust comes across all these different layers, which is what we're going to be diving into. Because once we start to pull it apart and, you know, I have a number of frameworks I've developed, it. It kind of, you look at the frameworks and you go, Oh yeah, that makes perfect sense. But somehow along the way, we forgotten [00:04:00] to really look at what it takes to actually create trust. And I think that's probably why we're all now doing business and leadership in a context where trust is at the lowest level it's ever been because we've neglected it. Sarah: Yeah. So good. Yeah. And it feels like we can immediately finger point at people or businesses where we don't feel that there's trust, right? But it's much harder to figure out, well, what are the things that create trust? Because like you said, it's kind of the invisible and it's just kind of like this energy that you either feel or you don't feel. And when you don't feel it, you're like, yep. It's because they're doing that. And in the humane marketing kind of realm, it would be the marketing that creates distrust, right? But, but there's so many other things besides marketing. And you mentioned this relationship to self [00:05:00] but also to your business and technology. Yeah. So let's maybe start with the self because that feels like a good starting point, because. Yeah, I feel like as business owners, that's where, you know, if you don't have trust in yourself, it's very hard to, to kind of give that to others. So, right. That's really Jayne: true. And, and I think, you know working in organizational life for many years, you know, seeing leaders talking about business as though it's out here. So when we think about trust, you know, very often in a business context, we think about, okay, how can we build trust, like from the business to our audience, for example, but in a lot of businesses that my audience, and I think probably yours as well, need to think about is, you know, how do we show up in, in our life? Right. And our business, because I think it was John Kabat Zinn that says, wherever you go, there you are. So you're not going [00:06:00] to be completely different in business than what you are in life. And, and really this, this external view of, you know, I can make my business success by doing things out here. It's kind of becoming an outdated notion today because the marketplace is demanding so much more of us. And the first thing that I want to speak to is this idea of trusted authority, which to me, I think you can't be successful in business today, unless you can build both trust and authority and authority doesn't come until you have trust in the first instance. So it begins. It's like, you know, just very simple questions. Like, do you trust yourself? And when I ask that of say clients or people that I meet, they'll, they'll stop and they'll think, and they'll, they'll, they'll come back with, well, there's some areas where I do, and then potentially there's some areas where. And maybe not so much. And so it's then that inner work of [00:07:00] really understanding yourself at a deeper level and understanding things, just very simple things. You know, this isn't new. It's like, what do you need? In any situation, for example, to feel confident in a situation, what do you need? And also, what do you want? How do you want to show up to your life, to your business, to your relationships? Who do you want to be and who do you want to become? Because what I'm really speaking to here is something I call your personal energetics or your personal resonance. Now. What do I mean by the word resonance? I just mean the relationship, the quality of connection that you form with yourself in this, in this inner space. Like, what is that quality of connection? Do you know yourself? Do you trust yourself? And in what situations do you trust yourself? And in what situations don't you? Now it's really interesting because what the research is showing [00:08:00] that Other people, other people know when you show up and you don't trust yourself because we all read energy. I mean, we don't talk about this all the time, but before anybody opens their mouth, right? We have a sense of who they're being and how they're feeling. Particularly as females, women particularly read emotional energy. And so really understanding that at a different level, you know, can really kind of accelerate the, what it is that you want out of any relationship. Whilst also enabling the other person to get that. So we're not just talking about you coming in here with a me, me, me energy. It's actually the beginning of the win win the me to we journey of how do I be in relationship with others? Well, I've got to learn how to trust myself and be in relationship with myself first so that I can inspire trust from others because if I don't trust me, nobody else is going to trust me [00:09:00] either. Sarah: Yeah, we're always so aligned in our thinking, right? The way I think about this recently, I, I started to think, well, we're talking about company cultures, right? This idea of cultures. And I'm like, well, as entrepreneurs, we need to start thinking about that. Think of it as, as personal cultures, what's the culture, you know, your personal culture within your one person business. And that's exactly what you were talking about is this resonance. How do you feel Because, yeah, that reflects on other people then, and then that's where this resonance comes in, right? And people seeing how you feel. And I love how you made that transitional. So from the me to the we so yeah, clearly it's like, it's not just you and your business, it's you in relationship with. You know, clients, [00:10:00] other people one point you also made was this idea of the authority. And so that I feel like a lot of people are kind of scared already of that word. It's, you know, it feels kind of maybe a bit heavy, maybe even a bit. Kind of like past paradigm, you know, so tell us more about this this idea of authority for me. Also, what comes up what I like more is the word courage because you and I both work with change makers. And so I feel like having this. Working on themselves, this inner work, this self confidence it leads to more courage and that's really what you need to kind of show up as, you know, more of an authority, but I'm curious to, to hear from you what you think about authority and courage and all of these things. Jayne: Yeah. And I love the word courage because of course it comes from the [00:11:00] French, you know, that the courage of it's the heart opening at the end of the day. Interestingly, as you were speaking there, I was thinking, I don't actually use the word authority without the word trust. And why? Right. Because I think you're right. I think authority in a way is the old paradigm because it's got a very masculine energy with it. It does, doesn't it? No, it's kind of got a bit of a push energy and a bit of a, let me blow out my chest and show how good I am. Right. Right. And so this masculine energy comes forward with the word authority, but if you put the word power, Trust with it. Trust is a very feminine kind of feeling kind of energy. And one of the things I learned over, you know, over the years, working with so many different coaches and consultants and also leaders and global leaders and C level leaders is this, this idea that a lot of my work with these individuals, particularly in coaching, has really been around. And if I say these two words, people will get it straight away. Owning. Owning it, [00:12:00] whatever the it is for you. It's not just learning that you have a message, but that you are a message. Right. And so when I look at the word trust and authority together, it's the integration for me of the masculine and the feminine, because. It's like, if you only, if you only operate through a feminine energy in today's market, you're not going to get enough done. There's not going to be enough structures in place to actually attract the people. Life's going to be hard because yeah, you're going to be working as an individual. Maybe you're a solopreneur, but you'll still be trading time for money because you won't have learned how to build the, the structures in the business that can start to take the pressure off your back. Right. And so it's this combination of. Trust, or like you said, courage, courage for me is one of the things that I talk about in different levels of consciousness. I'm kind of going off piece a little bit, but different levels of consciousness is the energy of the heart. [00:13:00] So for your audience, if you know, you're listening and you're not familiar with my work, right? So if you just think about the chakra system, The lower levels of energy are connected to the higher levels of energy through the hearts, right? Through courage. And so authority is really built off of trust, which is the foundation of it. But the old style authority. Didn't really have trust in there. It was just like, let me just shout as loud as I can to everybody who'll listen about how amazing I am. And maybe some of it will stick, but in today's market, it's much quieter than that. And the reason it's built on trust is because you're not the one giving. Being your self authority, like in the old days, it's other people that will then say, you know, I trust you and I trust your authority in this space. And for you to be that person, you need to have done your own [00:14:00] inner work. Now, what does that mean? When I look out into the world, and this is quite a triggering statement for some people, I feel that we have a lot of issues in our leadership. And one of those issues is there's many, many leaders that are leading from what I would. Term as unhealed stories. So they've had trauma, maybe in their childhood, maybe in their adult life. You know, we've all had trauma, but they've not done the inner work. They've not done their own work to actually kind of heal that. So they go into work and life and business. And what they're doing is they're projecting these. This trauma, these unhealed stories onto other people in not, they're not aware of it at all, but it also causes more aggression, lack of care, lack of compassion in the workplace because somebody's unaware. They're not. Conscious really of what they're doing and their impact on [00:15:00] others. And so really this is where trust all begins is, are you prepared to do the work to earn trust? Because we all know trust isn't, and we all know from our own experiences, trust can be lost very quickly. And then it's harder, you know, you really do have to do some work to bring it back. So really understanding. Not only the foundations of trust, but the different elements that build trust generically, because it's been a lot of research done in this space. Once you understand that, it's easier to be aware if you're ever breaking trust inadvertently with somebody else, you can do things that actually bring it back before it kind of falls down the abyss. But also you can trust yourself and show up as a trustworthy individual. And that's a very attractive energy in this marketplace today, just in life. Because we don't meet that many people who've done their own inner work, who trust themselves and then show up [00:16:00] with trust because they own their message. They don't just have a message. You know, they own the message. They know their life. Is making a difference, not just their business. Sarah: And I Jayne: think embodying what matters most in today's marketplace is probably the most important advice I could give anyone. Sarah: Yeah, so much good stuff in there. I always want to like take notes for yeah, where, where can I. I don't want to add anything. It was just perfect. So, so let me just go in another direction because I, I think in one of the frameworks, I saw that you also talk about collaboration and maybe you hinted at it a little bit just prior how, oh, yeah, you mentioned it because you're saying, well, trust needs to be earned. And the old paradigm was kind of like, well, I just show up as an authority where actually you know, the other [00:17:00] people make you an authority. You don't even call yourself an authority. Right. And so how does this all have to do with collaboration? Because it's not just me trusting myself. Yes, we saw that was a big deal and that's where it all starts. But then how do we. not use, but collaborate with other people to increase maybe that trust and maybe also the authority what have you seen in your work? Jayne: Well, you see, as soon as you mentioned that I went straight into power dynamics in my head, because. You know, we've lived for so many years with positional leadership in organizational life. And even in small businesses, you know, there's the founder, the CEO, and, you know, maybe an admin assistant underneath. So what it, what happens when you do your own inner work is you start to realize and kind of have compassion for other people. And I don't know, this is [00:18:00] certainly true for me. The more I learn about what's on the inside here, the more I realize there's a bit of a crowd, but also. That I'm no better, really, or worse than anybody else. So it's almost like a humility comes into the way I feel. And I also realize that everybody that I meet has something that they can teach me. What do I mean about the power dynamics and trust? Well, What it does for me is it shifts my belief system about who I think I am and who I think I'm being, which then in a relationship with somebody else, or if I'm collaborating with, what I'm doing is I'm really partnering. I'm having the energy of not power over or power under, I'm in the power with. space. So when I'm in that space now, it's shared power, right? So it is collaborative because I'm listening as much to the person that I'm in relationship [00:19:00] with as much as I'm like speaking from my own perspective, but we're in true dialogue now. Every, whenever I say dialogue to people, everybody thinks that this is something we do every day, all the time, but it's not. I'll just say to anybody who's listening, just go out into life, sit in Starbucks and listen to the people behind you on a table. I can guarantee they won't be in true dialogue. Why? Because it's almost like we've forgotten this power with, we've forgotten how to be with each other in some ways. And if you listen, I can more or less guarantee what you're going to hear is what I would call two parallel conversations, whereas somebody is just waiting for the other person to finish so they can say the next thing they want to say, and the other person's waiting so they can say it. Speak and say what they want to say, but there's no real collaboration, even in a communication that's happening. [00:20:00] And again, this is why we've lost trust. You see, so this is also, there's so many different layers to trust from power, how we're showing up to the belief space to have we, do we trust ourselves? We've got our own, like. Have we healed our own stories so that we can actually be in the world in conscious and intentional ways? Because that's the beginning of humane marketing, because if we're not being human and we're acting like machines, then, well, we're pushing because we feel less than on the inside. So we feel we've got to get our stuff out because people need to hear what we've got to say. That's a very different energy then. Hey, yeah, I'm here and I'm ready to help, right? I'm ready to help you. And one of my mentors used to say to me, you know, like we talk a lot, don't we? In marketing about let's get a funnel. Let's get a lead magnet. Let's do this. Let's get it all in place. Right. Content marketing. And what one of my mentors, [00:21:00] one of my early mentors here in the States said to me, Jane, at the beginning of a relationship with anybody, Just help them, just help them, right? Don't keep proving that you can help them. Don't keep telling them you can help them, just help them. And when I think about trust, right, if I think about it from my own perspective, one of the first things when I'm in a new relationship, whether it's a business, professional relationship, or whether it's just a personal one is this idea of don't let me down. This is what research shows. The first thing that comes into our head is, are you someone I can trust? Don't let me down here. Whatever it is, don't let me down. So that's the first thing you, you need to prove is that you're someone who cares and that you're not going to let them down. You've got their back, right? It's simple. Sarah: It, it, it, I love this word, humility that you used and what comes up right now for me also when you said, don't let me down [00:22:00] is the word integrity. So kind of like walk your talk, follow through, do what you say, you're, you know, do what Said you were going to do all of these things. Like that's, it's these small little things that people notice. Kind of like the credit system from Stephen Covey, where he's like, well, you know, you, people, Don't pay attention, but they actually accumulate credits like if you do good things the other person will kind of have a credit count and every time they, you know, you do something that is like, not in integrity or not trustworthy. Well, you lose credits, right? And you it's very, very hard to then regain these credits once you are like, under zero. So. So yeah, just kind of like paying attention to, to the unspoken, to the invisible, like you mentioned, it's so, [00:23:00] so key in, in trust and authority building. And I feel like what you mentioned also about collaboration and partnership. It's, it's really this new paradigm, right? It's not about you building your own authority, but partnering with others on the same level that creates authority for both partners. I feel like that's the way we both, we all rise together. Right. It's not like I rise by abusing the people under me. It's like we all rise. And I just, I just love that way of thinking about business and marketing and building trust. So, yeah. Jayne: Yeah, it's so important. And you used a word there, Sarah, which is so important in business for me, which is the word integration, because even though I've talked about, you know, do you trust yourself? So this idea of personal trust and personal [00:24:00] resonance, then moving that out into like what I would call then social resonance or relationship. Like that inspires when you trust yourself, it's then how do you show up in the world that enables others to trust you? But this space of integration for me, like the crucible of that is in your business, Sarah: because Jayne: that's the space of being and doing, because we want you to embody the message that you have. We want you to lead from this integrated space. And we want you to bake this in to your business so that, for example, all of your team, like if you have assistants or whatever, anybody who's representing your business understands how they're going to go about building trust, because actually we can build trust through technology too today, but we can't do that if the, we can't do it in human ways. Unless those first [00:25:00] two, the personal and the social are in place. And if you think about this from, you know, like the, the, the work that leaders have been through, like there's emotional intelligence, which you could argue is a good piece of self trust. Then the social intelligence, which you can argue is a good piece of the relationship trust. And these two things are so important in business today. Why? Because the market's changing and we're going beyond the transactions in business now. So it's not just, will you do what you say you will do when you say you will do it? That's kind of the baseline now, but now people are looking for. Purpose. They're looking for meaning. They're looking for you. Are you a force for good in the world as one individual human living in the world? Are you a force for good in the way you're living your life? Or are you part of the problem? Right. And then that of course, ripples out into your relationships, ripples out into your business. [00:26:00] So, you know, one thing that I always say is a business that doesn't resonate. Can never be successful, just like a person that doesn't resonate can never be successful. And you can't resonate unless you can build trust. Sarah: Yeah. You can't build trust unless you do the inner work and the workshop with Jane. To tell us a bit more about the workshop that you're gonna yeah, Jayne: share with us. Yeah, well, I'm really excited cause I have a number of frameworks. And one of the things that I love is, is putting the, I'm very visual. So putting things into a visual framework really helps me to kind of understand. And there's a lot underneath these frameworks and I've got, I think, three or four that I'm going to be sharing. And, and the first one is looking in a way, looking at the context. It's looking at how is the market changing in terms of trust and what [00:27:00] are, and what are our customers like asking for? What are, what's the invitation that they're giving us right now in terms of the way that we show up to do business. Right. So that's kind of the first one. And then we're going to see. So we're going to start looking at this integration of the self and the relationships and the business. And what does it mean to truly integrate the being and doing in business? And we're also going to look at the five key elements of trust, of building trust in depth so that we can understand what they are, because of course, they work in the individual space, they work in the relationship space, and they also work in the business space. Because the ideal here is. It's not just you as a human being very trustworthy as an individual, and then building relationships that are trustworthy. That's a key part, but also building the trust into your business, baking it in into all of your kind of. Processes, your structures, your systems, even if they're run through [00:28:00] technology, that they still got your voice, they've still got your energy baked in at the very core. So we're going to be looking at what these things mean and how to actually practically implement this in your business, because trust can feel like something that's floating around up here. But we actually want to bring that energy down so that, you know, it makes a difference in your daily reality. So that's, I love Sarah: that so much and I love that you making it practical, right? It's like, while I love big concepts and you and I could talk about these things, hours and hours, but at the end of the day, what the entrepreneurs want is like, okay, I get that, but how do I bring that down into my business, into my systems? And I love that you talk about technology as well, because there is kind of this. You know, resistance to. Maybe using technology or seeing it as like this bad thing from the [00:29:00] past paradigm, but I'm very much about saying, no, no, no, we use the technology, but we just need to infuse it with the new paradigm. Recipe, you know, it's like, yeah, we, we can use both. And it seems like that's exactly what you're going to be sharing with us. So not wait, it's going to be amazing. So please people, if you listen to this and you want more of Jane and building trust and courage and all of that good stuff have a look at humane. marketing forward slash. workshop and join us on July 3rd because it's going to be amazing. And you, I think. It could, it could feel like this is just a nice to have for business, but don't get that wrong. It is a must have for the new business paradigm. We are going to be inundated with anything AI, right? And I just talked about the [00:30:00] positive things of AI, which I do a hundred percent believe in. But the other side, the dark side of AI is all the. You know, the generic stuff that we're going to be inundated with, and so that's why we need to work on the foundation and the trust building and all of that so that even in the technology, people can tell this is trustworthy and this is not, you know, so yeah, I can't wait. Jane, anything you want to add about the, the workshop or anything else? Jayne: I just want to say, I completely agree with what you're talking about with AI because at the moment, I mean, I can't necessarily talk about the future so much in the long term, but at the moment right now, this is a distinct advantage because you're absolutely right, Sarah. AI is. Causing us to reflect back on ourself to what does it mean to be human and be human as a leader and human in business. So that, this is why your brand and humane [00:31:00] marketing, I know the work that you do is so very important because if we can't claim and there's right now, there's no shared definition of what it means to be human. So if we can't claim. Ourselves and our energy and what it means to be human. How on earth are we going to keep up with AI coming in? So the, this sounds, you know, like it sounds fundamental in many ways because it is, but it's also right now, what I want you to know is, My clients that are doing this in the marketplace right now, this is a competitive advantage because it's what the market is asking for and the market is in some ways slower to move with the large corporations than we are when we're entrepreneurial and we can pivot on a dime. So it's a real competitive advantage right now. And people are yearning for the humanity back in business. So let's just give it to them. Sarah: Yes. Let's [00:32:00] do it. Can't wait, Jane. Really. I very much look forward to this and thanks so much for being on the podcast and let's just say to be continued. Yeah. Jayne: I love it. Sarah: Thank you, Sarah.

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We’re Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

In this episode, Sarah sits down with Sophie Lechner to explore how heart-centered entrepreneurs can attract clients on LinkedIn without resorting to spam. Together, they unpack the customer journey and how to craft impactful content that resonates on LinkedIn. Sophie shares her innovative concept of the content wheel, offering practical advice on using LinkedIn to inspire change. This episode is packed with insights and strategies to help you grow your business in a humane and authentic way. In this conversation they talked about: The customer journey and how to address that with your content on LinkedInHow entrepreneurs can use their content on LinkedIn to inspire changeWhether content creation alone really works to get clients - or what else to doSophie’s concept of the content wheeland much more... -- video Ep 190: [00:00:00] [00:01:00] [00:02:00] [00:03:00] [00:04:00] [00:05:00] [00:06:00] [00:07:00] [00:08:00] Hi Sophie, it's good to have you back on the Humane Marketing Podcast. Hi, Sarah. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. Yeah, I was just looking at the last episode. It was if people have missed it, it's episode 172. That time we talked about kind of the, this community. Project that you started and that's how we connected. So it was more under the P of passion of the seven P's of humane marketing. And this time I wanted to have you back for the promotion [00:09:00] P. And I just kind of said in the intro, okay, promotion to me, that feels almost like an old paradigm word. It's kind of like, you know, advertising almost like we're not really, that's not what we're doing on LinkedIn. We're not. Promoting as per se. So yeah, let's just dive right in. What are we doing on LinkedIn that somehow leads to clients, but without the spam? Yeah, absolutely. That's true. There's so many connotations with that word promotion. So, in my mind, So I, you know, the people I like to work with are mission driven. And I know you, you, those are the same people that you like working with as well. And when you're mission driven, you really have a message to share and you, you want to help your, your potential clients, but you also have, you know, things that you want to share with the. Population at large things that are important to you. Even outside [00:10:00] of your work, but specifically about your work, you have messages. You want to raise awareness, for example, and the other thing is in order to help your clients. You need to really. to bring them to you to understand that they even have a problem. Right? So, so many people are walking around with problems that they have not necessarily identified, or maybe they haven't identified. Realize that they can actually have a solution to them, you know? And so I think we need to speak to that as well. So it's something that I've been talking about a lot is the customer journey, because I feel that we tend to talk to people who, you know, like we don't necessarily define them that way, but we end up talking to people who are ready to buy, and we talk as if they were choosing between vendors, right. Sort of. [00:11:00] What I think we want to do with our content is really to help transform people, to help people get to that point where they understand their problem, where they understand they can get help. And that's something that I think is very much forgotten or neglected. And those are the things. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. And I was just like, I had to. Jump in because it's so the opposite of the spammy messages that we get where they just assume that we want to buy whatever they're selling us. Right? So there's no client journey at all. It's like, no, you need this new product that, you know, whatever it does. And I'm like, have you looked at my profile? No, I don't need that. Right? And so. Yeah, that, that idea of taking people on a journey that, that really resonates. So, so yeah, I interrupted you. So tell us, tell us more. No, it's exactly, it's, [00:12:00] it's the whole shift between self centered, all these spammers are like me, me, me, my product and me and what I can do. And it's really shifting to the other, looking at others and how you can help them. That's really at the center of everything. Once you start doing that, you know, the rest follows you, you, you want to help people. And once you look at the people around you and understand how they operate in terms of what you offer and how you can help them. Yeah. Then you think about them and you, and you sit down at your computer to write a post or something. And you're like, what can I say that is going to help a person get closer to their solution? If their solution includes you all the better, but if it doesn't, you still have reached your mission. You still have accomplished your mission with regard to that one person. Yeah. [00:13:00] So many things. Like the. One thing that comes to mind is this idea that I talk about, which is the worldview. So that's what you're saying. It's like you bring that in because then there's no more provider kind of comparison. It's more like, okay, you've achieved your mission because the people are like resonating with what you're sharing and you just happen to also have a solution to their problem. But that requires that you also talk about the solution, right? So there's this thing in our brain that's called the reticular activating system. And so people kind of sometimes shy away, at least our heart centered people, they shy away from kind of, you know, talking about the problem or in, you know, typical marketing lingo would be the pain points. So we don't want to talk about the pain points. But we still somehow need to address the problem that they're facing. Otherwise, we're, we're losing them. They're, they're not even paying attention [00:14:00] to us. Now, you also mentioned that sometimes people don't even know they have a problem or what kind of problem they have. So it sounds like we need to start even earlier in that journey. So tell us how we would, you know, figure out what their problem or, or help them figure out what their problem is. Yeah. So it's, it's, yeah, you're right. That whole thing about the pain point, you do need to talk about the pain, but not like what is traditionally done is, you know, agitate the pain, like put salt in the wound, all these terribly belligerent terms. So it's not about that. It's, it's. If somebody has pain, yes, they need, you need to have them recognize it, but you need to help them understand where that pain is coming from, what is causing it, the fact that it is fixable. So those are all positive things that come out of talking about pain, right? So [00:15:00] the way to, to, to help with that is really to get to understand your customers really, really, really well. And. Of course, when we work with our clients, we get to understand a lot about who they are. But in a sense, that's their, their self when they're ready to buy that we know. Right. So even if we talk, so start with getting to know your customers really, really well. However, that's not enough. You need to go to before they were ready. And some of the ways to do that is to talk, you know, with in, in networking events, do networking, talk to people, talk to people who are not buying from you, talk to people who you know could benefit from working with you. But don't seem to be interested in signing up with you and have conversations, not like, why aren't you buying, but, you know, [00:16:00] just chatting generally and having them understand, for example, when I do networking, I often meet people who will say, Oh, I really hate LinkedIn. I do everything on Instagram, for example, so that this is my chance to ask them, what is it you like about Instagram? What is it you don't like about LinkedIn? And. By doing that, I get to understand the misconceptions they have about LinkedIn, the things they don't like, the things that I know I could simply tell them by a sentence. Well, actually, you don't need to do that or whatever, you know, I can fix it. But the point is really doing the market research and asking questions and getting to know them. And then the next thing you can do is write a post about it. And then you're talking to all those other people who hate LinkedIn for that particular reason, right? And et cetera. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's funny because I was just preparing, we have our, our next Humane Marketing Circle community call and [00:17:00] that you're also a member of, and, and I was preparing the call and I was thinking that we could talk about limiting beliefs that our clients have. And so it's kind of that same idea. It's like, What are they telling themselves, like, you know, nobody gets clients on LinkedIn or LinkedIn is just a bunch of spamming. Right? So that's kind of these limiting beliefs or, or past experiences. And that's exactly what we need to find out about our clients. Yeah, so that we can then take them on this journey, right? Yeah, that's actually the second step. So in the workshop, I'm going to explain, you know, the, the customer journey. A lot of us have heard of it, but I've actually adapted it and simplified it and made it sort of actionable for people like us to do in our marketing. So what we've talked about before was the, is the first step. And what you're talking about now is the second step. I'll explain that more in the workshop. But those are, you know, the different stages. First, you got [00:18:00] to know you have a problem. And then what is it you believe about that problem? And our job is at every stage to change the belief for them to get to the next point. That's one of the other keys is not all your messages are about people buying from you. That's like jumping the queue. So content for each and every step of the way. Right, yeah, I love that. So, if we think about this, this applies to any kind of platform, I would assume, right? And that's, that's so often the part that people, like the, the deeper, the foundation that people skip and they just go to content creation. It's like, oh, people, the marketing people keep telling us we have to create content and so they can, they create all kinds of content. content that takes them hours and hours, but there's no foundation or strategy behind it. So what you're saying is that's why [00:19:00] a lot of people don't find success because there's no strategy, right? Yeah. Strategy is one of the big pieces. And then the Even bigger, I would say is engagement. I mean, they're like both fillers, but a lot of people also have the problem that they post and they post and they post and they get no results. I'm like, yeah, are you engaging? Are you, you know, going back and answering comments and eliciting comments and leaving comments on other people's stuff and all this, all this activity that you need to do to get engagement. It's. It, you know, we put these terms on things, but basically you go to a networking event and you can't just go there, drink wine or whatever it is and eat and leave and say, networking doesn't work. You have to engage, right? It's the same thing. And sometimes we, we put these terms, this marketing terms on things and we forget the basic realities of its people. We need to have [00:20:00] conversations with people. Right. Right. Yeah. So. Okay, we know that we need to think about our strategy, our customer journey, and then we need to post. Besides posting and the engagement, is there a next step? Like, what would be our next step? After all of that, so, so the engagement starts, Inside of your post, right? Or the, you know, the comment thread then it goes to the profile and potentially creating a natural connection invitation to connect or it can. Yeah. And then it can go into the DMS, right? So I know DM is a word that makes us all shiver because that's where all the crap happens. But you can like spam, but you can use the just direct messages to just take a conversation that started in the comments and just go a little bit deeper. We're not talking super depth, but a little bit deeper and privately [00:21:00] in the direct messages. And usually after 1 or 2 of those, you can suggest getting on a call and that's where all the magic happens. That's where you build that relationship. And then you follow up and, and that's how you get clients . So yeah, it's, it's funny 'cause as you know, I, I've been a LinkedIn consultant myself and, and even back then I was telling people, the clients, they don't happen. That thing doesn't happen magically on LinkedIn. It happens outside of LinkedIn. And, and I'm glad to hear that that's what you are also saying that the, yeah, it, it, it's. It's a way to meet people and to, yes, kind of show them what you're all about and then bringing them on that journey, but the actual conversation happens outside of, of LinkedIn. Yeah. I guess a lot of the LinkedIn people out [00:22:00] there It's, you still see a lot of shoulds, you know, we should be doing this. We should be doing that. This is how a post should look like in order to get more reach. So how important is all of this reach and all of these likes? You, you did say engagement was important. So what if I don't get engagement? Like how much do I need to pay attention to this and how, because I think that's also where people get Ashamed if they are, their posts are not getting, you know, this level of likes or engagement. Are they doing something wrong? How did they do it differently? Well, for sure. You do need to get some views and. Like everything else you need to, you need to put some of yourself in there before you get anything back. So if you start engaging on other people's content, they [00:23:00] will notice you and they will start looking at your content. It is as simple as that. So. I would make it a habit of going in every day, spend, you know, 10, 15 minutes and just comment on people's content. You can start by doing it randomly on whatever you think is, you know, is interesting, catches your interest, and. just, just to get started. And then you can start to notice some people that, whose content you really enjoy and whose content is maybe relevant to your topic and relevant to your audience. And then you can comment and you can also share their content. You can just repost without putting a comment, a comment, but for the most part, I would recommend you put a comment. When I say comment, it's not a comment. You repost with sharing your thoughts. So you're actually creating a post that is someone else's post and you say why it's relevant, right? So [00:24:00] you're, if you're early in the stages of learning LinkedIn and you don't have a lot to post and to say, it's great to do that because you can tag the person who's post your, your Reposting, you can tag someone else who you think might be interested, right? So you're going out there and creating these connections and then the, the engagement will come to you. Yeah. So it's a two way street and you have to engage in that. I would say it starts even earlier because what we were just discussing in the marketing, like ReHuman program, they were telling me, yeah, but I have people on there, they're, Content is not interesting to me. So what's the point of me going to comment on these people's content? And so I would say, and you probably will share that in the workshop as well. Well, it starts before you [00:25:00] actually have to have the right people on there. And so, well, maybe it's kind of. The same process, you start commenting and then you see who else is commenting on their comments. And so you kind of create your ecosystem, especially because the kind of mission driven entrepreneurs that we want to work with. We're currently kind of going through this purging in business where, you know, I for, for myself, for sure. I had to get away from all the six figure seven figure business kind of world and people kind of in that world. And, and so slowly I had to add new people and, you know, find these heart centered more sustainability oriented people and that that's the work as well. It's like, well, yeah, if you're still, let's say you just came out of corporate. You're still gonna have all your corporate colleagues in there. There's no point in creating this [00:26:00] huge content machine because you're just gonna be talking to yourself basically. So all of it is part of the strategy as well. And I'm going to share a very simple tip to overcome that challenge is you can just go to the search bar, put in a word that is relevant to you, to your content, your topic, your audiences, problems, etc. And then when the bar comes, and you have all these different options you know, people, companies, groups, click on posts. And you will simply get a whole slew of posts that have that word and you do that a bunch of times. And then you will find content that's more interesting, and then you can start that whole process of commenting and sharing, and those people will connect with you, and that's how you can regenerate, so to speak, a, a, a newer circle of connections. Yeah, so good. It's those small tips that make all the difference, right? Because it [00:27:00] really is, you know, You know, useless to create all this content if then the wrong kind of people see it. So I think that's where a lot of people go wrong as well. So I think it's, yeah, it's super helpful. Tell us a bit more about the workshop. So you're coming into this community and sharing all of this in in the circle on June 5th. So tell us a bit more about what you're going to share there. Yeah, I'm going to talk about a system that I found just simpler than it than it seems, but it really has a lot of foundational work under it. And most of it has to do with this customer journey that we talked about. And the way this, this system helps with two main problems that I have found over time by working with a lot of people and talking to a lot of people, two main problems that people have with content, like a lot of people say, [00:28:00] well, I don't, I, I, I don't know what to post. I don't know what to write. I, you know and I found that there are two main problems. One is I, I've called them access and distribution and the access problem is when you, all of us, we have expertise, but with all this expertise and then the sheet of paper in front of us or the computer, we, we can't, we, we don't seem to be able to find what to say. Well, that's an access problem. How are we going to access in our mind all these nuggets that we can share with people? Okay. So my system really helps to access the information with prompts, with questions, with ways of thinking about the content that, or your expertise and your clients that allows you to get this all out of yourself. And then the 2nd is distribution, which. Once you've gotten all these ideas out of your head, [00:29:00] we have a lot of people I have come across. They have all this content, but then they don't know how to. Put it out on how to structure it. You're talking about, you know, how should like you need to learn a little bit about the ways to share your content and mostly when and how and in what order to, to put it all out. And so those are the things that I'm going to talk about in the workshop. Wonderful. Yeah. Can't wait. And then also that client journey, how that fits in, like you said. Yeah. And the whole thing is delivered through a. Very fun tool called the content wheel, which just came to me one day. And all of a sudden I was like, this is the way that you can actually fix both of these problems, the access problem and the distribution problem. Of course, you have to feed the wheel with the content. And that's where we'll talk about the customer journey and some other concepts to really come up with the content that [00:30:00] will make a difference to your audience and attract them to you. That's wonderful. I have this visual of spinning the wheel and then, you know, it picks one of the slots. We actually do spin a wheel. So it's really fun. That's wonderful. Can't wait. Yeah. And what we always do also in the community is really kind of host space for the conversation. And so we always have at least 1, if not 2 breakout rooms, because I find like. Workshops, or, or, you know, they call them master classes are great, but it's the integration and just talking it through what we just learn is so helpful for that integration. So we always built that into the, into the 90 minute workshop. So, and that's it. That's perfect because I have exercises. So the, the, you know, you build the, the, the content for the content wheel, we build it layer by layer. And the most foundational layer is the themes. And I talk about, I [00:31:00] have an exercise, so I have questions, you answer the questions that helps you to determine your themes. And then that's perfect for the breakout rooms. Usually I ask people, you know, just tell us your themes and I just, you know, Brainstorm with them and give them feedback. We can do that in the in the breakout rooms and then come back. And yeah, so that would be great. Sounds amazing. Wonderful. Well, We want everybody who's listening or watching to join us in the workshop, but we also know, you know, there's all kinds of other offerings and life and whatnot. So just mention your website as well, because you have wonderful resources there and maybe people can go there if they can't make it. Yes. I'm adding resources all the time. So it's the magnet model.com simply and the magnet model is because my whole entire philosophy of LinkedIn and of marketing is be a magnet to attract your clients and all the [00:32:00] things you can do to become a magnet. Wonderful. Yeah. Can't wait. I really look forward to it. Again, the link is humane. marketing forward slash workshop, and this is taking place on June 5th. So do join us. We're a gentle and humane bunch of people and would really love to hang out with you. So thanks, Sophie. Thanks so much for taking the time and doing this together. My pleasure. I look forward to it. Yeah. See you [00:33:00] [00:34:00] [00:35:00] soon.

Welcome to another episode, this time with an exclusive update on the forthcoming "Business Like We're Human" book! I’m spilling the beans about the outline of my new and upcoming book: WAKE UP, REIMAGINE, RECALIBRATE, and INTEGRATE. Listen now to dive deep into the essence of "Business Like We're Human" and join the conversation about what it means to you! -- Ep 189 audio solo episode Sarah: [00:00:00] Hello, Humane Marketers. Welcome back to another episode on the Humane Marketing Podcast. This time it's just me because I wanted to give you a, an update about the Business Like We're Human book. Sometime last year, I promised I'd share some updates along the way as I'm writing book number three. business like we're human. And I've been in planning phase pretty much since last fall. So in November, I hosted the Business Book Alchemist program for the first time. So that's a small group program to help renegade authors who write about change and I helped them plan and write their book. And then of course, I focused on my own book. There were five of us and everyone really loved the program and we worked on our outlines and yeah, really quite got a lot of progress. And after the program, I suggested [00:01:00] that we continue this small group in an accountability group where we talk Take turns hosting a catch up call once per month. And we've had three of those calls so far. And we also have a Google spreadsheet where we track when we're writing, which is super helpful with accountability. So that's what has been going on. And if I look back to this year, so I'm recording this end of April. January was just really a bust for me. I just didn't feel. anything, like nothing came. I still didn't know that direction of the book. And sometimes I felt like I was writing two books. I couldn't really focus on, well, what is my message? So instead I just started booking conversations with friends and past clients and asked them the question, what comes up? for you when [00:02:00] you hear business like we're human. And I transcribed those conversations and started to see a pattern emerge. And then all of a sudden, end of January exactly when Pluto, the planet Pluto finally left my sign of Capricorn and moved into Aquarius, which is If you are into astrology, you kind of know what that means. It just basically means for the last 20 years, Pluto was kind of this heavy, difficult planet in, in my sign, which is Capricorn, and it finally moved out of my sign. And it started to come all together. And I, Alefsa knew what people wanted to hear from me, but I also knew what I wanted to write and what I think they need to hear from me. So, that's why there was this confusion with thinking, okay, I'm, I'm writing two different books and now I. [00:03:00] I realized in January, Oh, okay. So it's just basically the same old marketing thing. Give them what they want and then sorry, sell them what they want and then give them what they need. So that's that all started to be clear for me. And so I basically am now. I started to write, I got the four parts of the book together actually with a visual because you might remember the labyrinth from the Marketing Like We're Human book. And I really found that visual representation of the different sections of a journey is really helpful. So I wanted to find another one. And it was sitting right in front of me on my desk in the form of a lovely card from my friend and past client Miriam Martinez, and it was in the form of a peace sign. So it was just, Perfect, because the whole point of running a business like We're Human [00:04:00] is to find inner peace so that we can create outer change. So without further ado, some drum roll please. The four parts of the Business Like We're Human book are Most likely, for now, at least, gonna be wake up, reimagine, recalibrate, and integrate. And let me read the intro now where I describe these four stages of the journey to a humane business. Anxiety versus peace. Anxiety free marketing, that was the very first name I came up with before gentle marketing and then humane marketing. Because in all my research, people kept telling me how marketing created anxiety for them. And it's not just marketing. I think it's the toxic online business environment in general. The constant hustle and [00:05:00] tendency to compare and keep up with what everyone else is doing. In a recent conversation with Ann Raju, a Virtual Assistant and Peaceful Productivity Mentor, she asked me my opinion about a new service she was going to offer around launching. And I shared how in my experience, just the word launch brings up anxiety in a lot of people because it's a word from the big guys with their massive launches. So even just going in, we feel like we're not good enough and we'll never achieve a successful launch. I added that I also felt that all this talk about launching has created a very false idea about it. Think about the word. To launch means to set something in motion. But in a rather speedy fashion, like a rocket or a missile. So no wonder this gives us anxiety. We're told to create a product, program, or online community, and then create a big [00:06:00] launch campaign. Think funnels, ads, and webinars, except that now they're being called masterclasses. And voila, that's the recipe for a six figure launch. Except that not only does it. Not work for most people. It also creates huge amounts of anxiety and pressure. And then when no one signs up, instead of lifting us up, it drops us to the ground and leaves us in a puddle of anxiety and share. Anne and I agreed that launching also needs to reset in order to fit into doing business like we're human. I'll bring this example back in part three, when we talk about recalibrating our business systems. Inner peace. I'm a big believer that change starts from within. That's the main change I introduced with Humane Marketing. Starting from within, looking at who we are, and then bringing more of us to our marketing. [00:07:00] So I was delighted to come across the Inner Development Goals, a new framework and a global open source initiative that aims to help us develop the skills we need in order to Accelerate the work towards the UN's global sustainable development goals. We need to first change ourselves, create more inner peace so that we can go out there and create outer change. As a flower child from the eighties, obtaining peace is my number one motivator, inner peace and peace on earth. That's why when I was thinking about this book and a visual to represent the four stages of transformation, the peace sign came to mind. Well, actually it was staring right at me, sitting on my desk in the form of a beautiful self painted card by my friend and past client, Miriam Martinez. Yes, that felt right. Doing business like we're human is a journey to inner peace that leads to outer change. The peace sign and the four [00:08:00] stages that lead to inner peace. Close your eyes for a moment and visualize the peace sign in front of your mind's eye. Got it? Good. Let me explain the four stages and equivalent parts of this book. Wake up. We start in the upper right corner of the peace circle. Are you visualizing it? Good. In case you closed your eyes to do so, open them again. Because this is the eye opening stage, our collective wake up call, where we realize that we're on the verge of something new and big. We'll go back in time to see how we created those myths that need updating. We'll rumble with our history that idealized work, and a decade by decade, and a decade by decade. And, and decade by decade made us put work first and being human last by the end of part one, we'll have understood that we have created a collective myth that in order to run a business, we need to be business [00:09:00] people and that running a business requires you to be a full time working bee with no spaciousness to be human. Picking up the peace sign again, you are now moving to the bottom right corner of the three smaller segments of the symbol. Imagine. Imagine all the people, living life in peace. You, you may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join us, and the world will be as one. Of course you recognize John Lennon's anthem for unity and peace. In his song, John envisioned a world without divisions, without borders, possessions, religion, and greed. He shared his dream of a society focused on human connection and harmony. Sound familiar? Isn't that what we want as well? Together we'll get curious and go back in time to moments of our lives, our childhood, and our human [00:10:00] history, ancient Greece and the Renaissance, where imagination was celebrated and encouraged. I'll also share an in depth account of my experience with a future life progression therapy session and explain how this deep dive into the unconscious mind can help us create the future we want. We'll end part two by reimagining your work and life. Part three. Recalibrate. Close your eyes again and take a few steps to the left. You now find yourself in the recalibration area of the peace symbol. Quite a few people I talked to found this to be an interesting word choice. Isn't that usually used for machines, they asked. Yes, it's not the most humane of words, but I really wanted to keep it because it's a word that I'm Our left brain understands after having used our right, right hemispheres and reimagined how doing business like where you human [00:11:00] would look like for us. We need to step into action mode and turn our on our left brains to enact the changes needed. This is the pragmatic part of the book that includes us changing to an Ubuntu mindset. Integrating an authentic relationship culture that encompasses our personal wellbeing, connection to others, and even adjusting our services so that they are aligned with this new culture. Then we'll focus on recalibrating our business foundations to create more spaciousness for being human, your marketing and sales, your systems and your support team. Don't worry, no hiring required. Integrate. You've almost come full circle, literally and figuratively speaking. Integration is the last segment of the peace symbol in the top left corner of the circle, and also the homestretch of our journey to inner [00:12:00] peace that leads to other change. Yes, there will be some challenges and hurdles to overcome, but I'll equip you with rituals, practices, cognitive and embodied ones and other support to navigate this transition to more humane business practices that always put the human first. Are you ready to begin this journey? So that's the introduction to, to kind of like give you a little idea of yeah, what I'm working on, what I'm writing about, like my last two books. This is not your typical how to grow your business book. It's a how to be more human and also run a business book. But it's more than that. It's really a radical new way to think about business and work. One where we have the spaciousness to be more human and actually learn again what it means to be human when we're not working. I read a lot about going [00:13:00] pro from people I appreciate, but going pro doesn't mean working more or being less human. Going pro to me means being really good at what you do and recalibrating your business so that your systems run smoothly with very little human maintenance. This frees up so much time for you to spend time on your authentic relationship culture. Again, that's one of the topics of the recalibration part. So anyways, that just gives you kind of a glimpse. I as you can probably tell, I could keep on talking about this. I, when I write a book, I really truly get immersed in these topics. I'll update you again. So for now I'm wrapping this up. I'd love to hear from you what Business Like We're Human means to you. I'm collecting stories from people in my community. But also would love to hear from you and [00:14:00] you can leave me a voice memo at humane. marketing. com forward slash ask. So A S K. It's only 90 seconds, so it needs to be rather quick. Enter your name and email so I can get in touch and ask follow up questions and maybe again, I'll even feature your answer in the book. Again, you can go to humane. marketing. com forward slash ask and leave me a voice. Memo, or you can also get in touch with me on LinkedIn or send me an email at sarahathumane. marketing. Again, the question is what does business like we're human mean to you? How does this resonate? What comes up for you? Thank you so much for listening to this first Muse about business like we're human, I look forward to hearing from you, take care.

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We’re Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

Join us for an enriching conversation on Podcasting to Create Connection with Chrysa Sto.  In this episode, we explore the main fears that hold people back, strategies for consistently discovering captivating guests, and how podcasts can seamlessly integrate into your broader business strategy.  Discover an often overlooked yet powerful method for fostering direct engagement with your audience while exploring the future of this dynamic medium.  Are you ready to harness the power of podcasting to cultivate genuine connections and drive positive change?  Let’s dive in. In this conversation we talked about: The main fear of people starting their own podcastHow to continuously find new interesting guestsHow a podcast fits into an overall business strategyAn overlooked yet simple strategy to directly interact and engage with your listenersThe future of podcasts…and much more... --- Ep 189 [00:00:00] Hello, Humane Marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today’s conscious customers because it’s humane, ethical, and non pushy. I’m Sarah Zanacroce, your hippie turned business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama bear of the humane marketing circle and renegade author of marketing like we’re human and selling like we’re human. If after listening to the show for a while, you’re ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what we’re doing. Works and what doesn’t work in business, then we’d love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you’re picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way. We share with transparency and vulnerability, what works for us and what doesn’t work. So that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane. marketing forward slash circle. And if you prefer one on one support from me, my humane business coaching could be just what you need. Whether it’s for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea like writing a book, I’d love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15 years business experience. experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my mama bear qualities as my one on one client can find out more at humane. marketing forward slash coaching. And finally, if you are a marketing impact pioneer and would like to bring humane marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website at humane. marketing. com. Dot marketing. Ep 188 intro: Hi, friends. Welcome back to another episode of the Humane Marketing Podcast. Today’s conversation fits under the piece of partnership, promotion, and even people and product. So kind of fits everywhere. I’m talking to Carissa Stowe about podcasting. If you’re a regular here, you know that I’m organizing these conversations around the seven Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. And if this is your first time here, maybe you’re one of Krisa’s people, [00:03:00] big warm welcome. You probably don’t know what I’m talking about. What’s the seven P’s in Mandala? Well, you can go over to humane. marketing forward slash one page, the number one and the word page, and download your one page marketing plan with the seven P’s of humane marketing. And this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different P’s. And I’m actually recording a mini. Muse episodes around these seven Ps that I will all upload to a blog post around them, and you’ll find the recordings in there. And that’s at humane. marketing. com forward slash seven Ps, the number seven. Letters P and S. So today’s show, let me tell you a little bit more about CRISA. CRISA helps human centered, eco conscious businesses and change makers launch [00:04:00] and manage podcasts that feel authentic and sound good. She’s dedicated to helping you utilize podcasting to establish credibility and brand awareness, create connections with potential clients, and foster meaningful relationships that result in increased business opportunities. In our conversation, we talked about the main fear of people starting their own podcast, how to continuously find new interesting guests, how a podcast fits into an overall business strategy. An overlooked yet simple strategy to directly interact and engage with your listeners, and you’ll hear on this episode how even I overlooked it, or I had it in place, but never used it. So you’ll find that out later in the episode. And we also talk about the future of podcasts and Chris’s opinion on that and so much more. So [00:05:00] without further ado, let’s dive in. video1496172371: Hey Chrysa, so good to have you on the Humane Marketing Podcast to talk about podcasting. And we just had like a stressful moment before getting on with the tech and my mic all of a sudden not working and we were just laughing because Right. That’s exactly what we’re talking about today. This show the technical issues and not just that, but that’s usually where people are like, Oh, my God, all this tech that’s involved, but anyways. Thank you so much for being here on the show. Thank you for having Sarah. It’s really nice to connect and talk with you. Yeah. It’s been a long time in the making. We’ve connected so long ago. It seems like, even though probably for you, the time just flew by because you had a baby and time is just different when you have a baby, right? It seems like it just flies by. Here we are. Yeah. So [00:06:00] almost probably a year after connecting for the first time. So, yeah. So today this today. Yeah. So glad to be here. Yeah. Wonderful. Well, let’s just get started with the tech because I think that’s you know, one of the things that a lot of entrepreneurs worry about when it comes to podcasting. But it’s not the only thing we’re going to be talking about on today’s show, but I think it’s a good way to start. So how much do we really need to worry about the tech? Is that a big deal? Mm hmm. It’s always a question that comes up, especially for people who are either starting out or have some, you know issues with tech. So In the question, how much tech do you need to get started? For example, the barrier to entry is low, so you don’t need much of a tech to get started. You need [00:07:00] a microphone, a decent web camera, if you don’t have like, for example, A mireless or a DSLR but definitely you don’t need to break the bank with a microphone and from the ease of your computer of your home you can record a podcast with of course you need a recording platform like zoom or Riverside or squad cast. There are numerous Platforms out there that you can record a show and have a good quality audio. But to get started, I would say it’s pretty straightforward, easy to get started with a microphone, a camera and a recording software. Thank you. Yeah. I think that a lot of people are kind of like, oh, can relax their shoulders. So what, let’s just explain what just happened when we logged on, right? So I do what I always do. I check the mic before I hit recording or before the guest even goes, gets on. And so [00:08:00] when you I let you in all of a sudden I noticed that my mic is not showing up in the, in the settings. And then I realized, well, it’s not even, like, usually there’s a small blue light mic that I use and I use a Rode desktop mic. And so I’m like, well, trying to plug it in to different ways, unplug it, et cetera. Because I do feel like it helps to have a good mic to record a podcast. But then we decided, okay, well, let’s go ahead anyways to record it because actually I use some tools. That helped with the recording anyways after. And so I shared with you that I use a site called a phonic where I didn’t upload and that kind of equalizes the sound and it usually is pretty good. So that’s what just happened before we hit record. So yeah, a good mic is [00:09:00] definitely a huge plus, but like you said, you don’t need to break the bank. So what do you feel like, and then you actually. Mentioned lighting because we’re recording this also on YouTube. What would you say is more important, the light or the sound? Yeah, that’s a really interesting question. Thanks for asking. And what I would say about that is, It’s usually 50 percent of the, of the success depends on the audio. So even if you have the, like the best camera and your audio is, is, is bad, is poor things won’t be you know, presented as, as as, as they should, if you had poor audio. a decent web camera or a decent camera and a decent microphone, if that makes sense. So it’s 50 50, it’s 50 50, but the audio part, I feel it’s more important because people can, [00:10:00] can view and watch and not show crystal clear, clear, you know, image, video on their, on their, on their phone or on their computer, but they don’t, they cannot hear a poor recorded audio, if that makes sense. It’s really annoying to listen to something that you can’t. Barely here or there’s like background noise. It’s yeah, you get annoyed faster. I think with your ears than with your eyes. Exactly. Yeah. And because we’re talking about the podcast, which was mainly An audio experience now, certainly like the, the few years the last few years have become like video. There are so many video first podcasts out there, but at first it was originally an audio experience. So if we consider that the audio experience and the people have you. Plugged in their [00:11:00] headphones and always on the go, they need to have like a great audio and listening experience. Right. Hmm. Yeah. So let’s expand a little bit further. So, okay. We know that good sound is important. What else makes a successful podcast in your opinion? Yeah I mean, this is a question that the answer is it depends because success to me, for example, might be different from what you define success to be. So it depends on, on the podcasters goals, objectives. And needs like how the podcast is contribute, contributes to, you know, for example, if those people are business owners it depends for every people is different. But I would say for. People like me or like, like for coaches, consultants, service providers, a successful podcast is [00:12:00] like the, the core of your content is, is, is a channel that you have. build your network on. You can use this channel and this like to, to show up share what you have to, to say about the topic that you’re interested in or know more about. And also have this channel be, The core strategy of building your network creating relationships, connecting with people who you haven’t had the time like to connect with unless you had the podcast and It depends on many different factors, but I think for business owners, podcasting is, and the podcast is a door opener. It gives you the opportunity to meet with people, connect with people that might also these people be Potential [00:13:00] clients business partners, collaborators, and all of this plays a huge role in networking and you know, growing a business through networking connections and organic ways of growing a business, if that makes sense. Yeah. So, so you basically defined what success could look like. Right. And, and, and now let’s go to, well, what makes that successful podcast, however you define success. So by that, I mean, like, you know, content flow guests are a few of these ingredients, right? So you probably have listened to many, many podcasts and. You can tell, okay, this podcast is gonna make it, or this past podcast, I don’t know how long it’s gonna survive. Right. There’s probably some indicators that tell you, yeah, [00:14:00] this is a good show or not so. Mm-Hmm, . Mm-Hmm. . So what are those? So, to that end, I mean I feel like a successful podcast is the, a podcast that can provide for the listeners, can, can share like valuable insights and actually be, Helpful resource, resource for people so that people are listeners and the audience is coming back every week or whatever frequency applies. But for me, a successful podcast is the one that helps me, educates me on something on a topic. I can listen with ease, like without having any audio issues or things like that. And I can also connect and like the guests, like how not the guests, sorry, the host and the guests. I, a podcast, successful podcast to, to my eyes is one that I like the host, how they [00:15:00] present the content how they connect with people, how, you know, their manners and all of that. So yeah, for me, it’s all about. becoming a valuable, helpful resource for people so that your show, you know, has an impact on people’s either lives, businesses. Yeah. There’s, there’s essentially, there’s To two different audiences or people that are involved in the podcasting experience. I guess there’s the guests, right? And then there’s the listeners and as a podcast host. Well, you’re creating relationships with the guests. Your stream, well, basically looking for guests to bring on to your audience and then you’re also creating relationships with your [00:16:00] listeners, which I guess in a way, yes, you’re kind of wanting them to. Further engage with you and maybe come into your world and then go on to your gentle sales path. That’s really also part of why we’re doing this. Yes, we’re educating, we’re inspiring, but we’re doing this in a business context. And so somehow it has to do with our gentle sales path, right? So let’s talk first about the guests because. That is something that while you need to make sure that you have guests lined up and, and so how, what are ways that podcast hosts are finding new, interesting guests that, you know, you see with your clients, what are you helping them with? Yeah. Now so here’s the thing about finding guests, there are several podcasts, websites, matching websites out [00:17:00] there that you can go in, create an account and you know, So these podcast websites connect guests with hosts, right? So an example of this would be podcastguest. com or podmods. And this is an easy way for people who don’t have another way to do it. This is an easy way to find guests. Although with my clients, when the, the last few years, I started to incorporate a more hybrid approach. What I mean by that is because of my client, because most of my clients are business owners or you know, coaches, service providers, and this kind of profession they want to somehow link the podcast into, you know, finding clients or collaborating with people in a way that is mutually beneficial. So that, that’s, that’s why I figured out [00:18:00] like okay, I need to find a way to. help them find guests, but not just find guests for the sake of finding a guest, bringing them, recording an episode and that’s it, but in a more intentional way. Right. And so here’s what I recommend for people who want to somehow link the podcast with the business. You can simply create a list of potential guests that you want to have in your show, but with in mind, you would have the people that you either admire or want to work with, the people you would love to work with. And so you are reaching out to those people. That for you feed the ideal client persona that you have and you’re reaching out to those people, you’re inviting them to the show. Most people will, are likely to say yes, because [00:19:00] it’s a conversation, you know, it’s a natural way of no, or getting to knowing to know someone or learning from them. So then when you have them on the show, either before or after the interview, or even in a follow up email that you might be sending, you can just mention a simple, gentle, genuine question like you can let them be aware of your, of the offers that you have currently, currently running your services, your website, and you can just ask, is there a new one? And That you think I should talk to, or do you know anyone that might be interested in the XYZ service that I have and is just like asking them if they know someone else, you’re not trying to sell something to them. So the approach is actually at least in my opinion, humane, you know, gentle So this [00:20:00] way there is a double benefit to this. You are finding guests to fill up the list of your, of the guests of your show, but you’re not just bringing you know, anyone that’s might be interested. You’re bringing actually people who you admire and you would want to work with. So if this conversation ends up like, if those people are interested. To in working with you, they might, this might be an opportunity for them to get to know you get to know to your, you know, to your personality approach. So either they might say yes, or they might refer you to someone else. And in fact, most of my clients. Use the podcast, utilize the podcast, the power of podcasting like this. Like most of the guests they have on the show, they send them referrals because they had a great experience. Certainly you cannot have someone on your show and [00:21:00] just have them. And then be like forget them. You need to nurture their relationship and keep engaging with them. Keep, you know, interacting with them afterwards, because we’re talking about build, building real relationships, you know? So this is the way I recommend people you know, who are interested in linking the podcast to the business. To go about this. Like it’s an idea worth considering because I’ve seen it working with many of my clients. Yeah, that’s a, that’s a great idea. And I think I, I was trying to remember when I started podcasting and don’t remember, but it’s, it’s at least eight years. I think that I’ve been podcasting various. Podcasts, and I made the mistake of just randomly interviewing people at least in the first podcast, the, the it was called the introvert best [00:22:00] growth podcast at the same time, maybe I wouldn’t call it a mistake because it was for me. Just the networking, just the relationship building, they didn’t turn out to be clients, but they helped me create this huge network. Now that I do feel like I, I never need to look for a podcast guests. It’s, it’s like. As a podcast host, you get so many pitches from people to be on podcasts. And probably out of a hundred, I accept one because they just really did their homework really well. But the other 99, I just don’t even reply anymore. Because I, I do have this big network network of people that I feel like, okay, these are aligned people. Right. But I guess what I’m not doing is I’m not like thinking, Oh, could they be clients as much [00:23:00] because I, what I was thinking when you were talking is like, well, the topic of the podcast also needs to be aligned with a topic that your, would be a fit for your clients. Right. Because for me, well, I’m bringing in. Either experts at marketing. So they’re like, well, I don’t need Sarah’s help. Right. There are experts in their own field of marketing of some kind. Or or they are an inspiration for me. And so that’s why I bring them in. So there are change makers that I look up to and they, you know, they’re probably as few steps ahead of me. And so that’s why I bring them. And, and that’s also my reason for podcasting is really all the things I learned over the years. So yeah, but the other thing it made me think of when you shared, it was like, well, the frequency of [00:24:00] podcasting, right? When you have to, Look for for client for podcast guests per month, or some people have even 2 shows per week. And then it’s a podcast. That’s a lot of people. Right? And then really the relationship relationship building gets quite difficult. Difficult. And that’s what happened to me when I had four guests per month. And I’m like, I can’t, like, it doesn’t feel human or humane anymore. It feels like it’s just like this factory of people. And so that’s why I really slowed it down. And now I just have two episodes per month. And one of them is also a CoLab workshop partner. So I kind of combined that. So what, what would you say about the frequency of. Of shows. So a little bit about what you shared before. First of all, I, I totally agree all of that, that I’ve shared in terms of the strategy. Certainly the [00:25:00] people that you’re reaching out need to be aligned with, with the podcast topic that you have. But yeah, to answer your question about the frequency. I would say that everyone is doing what their best they what it’s best for their, you know, for the sanity for that is that fits their schedule. And definitely there is no need to be a by, you know, there’s no need doesn’t mean that if you don’t have a weekly show, you cannot be successful or you cannot achieve your goals, your specific goals. The frequency depends on, in my opinion, on your bandwidth, schedule, purpose, and you know, It’s best, what you do, it’s best to do what feels right for you, for your specific situation and for your goals. So for example, what you shared, [00:26:00] it didn’t feel a line anymore when you had feedback. For guests and like, if you like a factory, so this doesn’t feel right. So it’s good that you made the decision to go to buy a bi weekly schedule. So, yeah, I’m totally, I totally agree with that approach for everyone that is thinking that. Maybe people will forget about me or a bi weekly show is definitely a consistent, you know, normal paced show and schedule. Hmm. That’s good to know. So we talked about the hosts. Now let’s talk about the listeners. What would you say there? How do we engage with listeners so that we do bring them into our world and, and maybe eventually onto our gentle sales path? Yeah. That’s a, that’s a very general question, right? Engaging with listeners. It’s a bit hard for pod, for, [00:27:00] it was a bit hard for audio podcasters specifically because a podcast apps, at least most of them don’t allow you to interact directly as we interact on social media, for example, with comments and things like that. But. Now, thanks to video podcasting and YouTube, things got easier, but I won’t go there to interact like with ways using YouTube and social media, because that’s, that’s the normal thing. And I like to talk, you know non traditional ways of doing things. So yes, you can prompt listeners to follow your social media. Or watch on YouTube and interact with you this way. But what I would like to share with you is an overlooked strategy, an overlooked tactic that people often, you know don’t talk about, which is a simple [00:28:00] form, written form on your website that you can have. If you’re thinking, yeah, but the form of people you need people, I need from people to go to my website, fill out the form. Too many steps. Yes. Too many steps. But I like to have different things for people to take action on. So you can have a dedicated page on your website, for example, that might be something like yourpodcast. com slash question or slash listener And you can have a written form there for those who are interested in filling out the form and asking a question. And we can have also something like it’s a plugin, a web plugin called the software that you can install called, for example, Speakpipe. There are several others where, listen, you install this plugin in this page under or below or above [00:29:00] the form, doesn’t matter. And people can just press record from their phone or computer and record the voice note, which is It’s powerful because if you can get people to go to this, to this page and just click record and record the question, this means like direct interaction and engagement from your listeners. And what you also are doing with this way is you are collecting real feedback data Having the chance to feature them and give back to your audience, feature them, feature the voice notes, the voice note that they recorded on your show. So yeah this is, this is really. A strategy that we, we’ve started implementing with some of my clients and we’ve seen that it’s a bit tough to get listeners to go to this page. Yes. [00:30:00] But if you are, if you think of this page as your main call to action on the show and Also, if you have the chance to promote this page in other places that you might be speaking people who are interested, genuinely interested in, you know, interacting with you will definitely take the time to press one button and record a voice note. I’m laughing because I actually do have that set up on my website. And I didn’t even know the link, so I had to go look it up and it’s like this long link. So yeah, I need to create a permalink, like a shortened link for it. And I need to actually mention it on the podcast, right. It’s not enough to just sit there on the website. But yeah have it, have it as one of the call to actions is such a good reminder because I remember like when I first installed it, I love getting those messages. It’s like. [00:31:00] Oh my God, there’s people listening. , . And it was great. But yeah, I need to, I need to implement that. So if you’re listening, watch out. I don’t have a now because the link is way too long, but I’ll mention it on the, on the next episode. Definitely. So yeah look out for that link and, and please leave me a voice message. They make my kids. So yeah, great, great tips. So that’s one of those ways that we can engage. One of those ways. And people, yeah, as you said, people forget, like you, you install something or you create a way and you don’t even mention it on the show. So how do, do listeners, you know, are aware of this method or of this thing that you are suggesting to, for them to do. So yeah either on the show as a call to action or. You can even, you know, talk about it in interviews, workshops, whatever you have, because people will interact like trust [00:32:00] me, they do. They will do. Yeah, I love that. I was just thinking also and, and I don’t have that. or anything, but I’m playing with creating a chat bot for my community based on my books and my podcasts and everything. So I train the chat bot and then becomes a resource for members of the community because they can ask questions and the bot will basically give them information, but all based on my. Right. And so I’m thinking that maybe there’s some way to use a public chat bot on the podcast as well, so that they could go back into older episodes and, you know, look up things like. Who, you know, who talked about this in this topic, and then the bot would go back and give them the information on on that. I love [00:33:00] connecting AI in a very human serving way. You know, it’s like. Okay. Yes, it’s AI. Okay. It’s not a real human, but it helps us humans. Right. Because it, it brings us that information that we’re looking for. So I was just, yeah, as you were talking, like, huh, I wonder if that’s a really interesting and amazing idea. I don’t know of a software that does that, like directly connected, connecting to to be connected to the podcast, but I can definitely look it up and let Yeah. But I will love that. Like it’s, it’s really helpful to know because now the burden is on the host. For example, if you want to mention older episodes, you need to grab the link, put it in the description, mention it on, on the, on the, on that episode that you can find links or episodes mentioned in the description. Because you need to let people know, right? [00:34:00] Otherwise, how do they know? So, yeah, I love this idea because it literally, it’s, it’s really helpful. Yeah. Two tools that I’m using or that I’m experimenting with are one is called right sonic, and it came out with the first. Chatbots and and the other one is called creator. io. So I’m looking at those and then what you mentioned to find the links, you know, to other episodes, I’m using chat GPT for that already, but you have to have the paid version for that because otherwise it doesn’t provide you with links and that’s the whole point, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s the whole point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is great. What about, since we’re talking about, okay, we’re talking about AI, but we’re mainly talking about humans, so what about stats? Do I need to worry about stats? How often should I be looking at numbers or should I just forget about them? People, people [00:35:00] love looking at numbers, right? We love looking at numbers. I don’t. Oh, okay. Yeah, that’s, that’s great because I don’t either, but most people some people, not most, but some people get a little bit, you know obsessed with numbers because they do want to download, they do want the listeners, but especially in the beginning, I recommend not looking at numbers at all, because they will create more stress and overwhelm than be helpful, you know? So, certainly statistics and, and, you know, analytics are great for People who have been podcasting for a while have an established audience and they want to know where do they people, where do these people are tuning in? Like how off, how long do they listen to? Is there a point that they left off? Should I [00:36:00] you know, do something for, to make the come back and come back and things like that. But this goes Once you have an established podcast, an established audience, and you know what you’re doing, you can definitely have a look, for example, once a month and either do it yourself, or if you have a manager or someone else that is helping you have a meeting and, or with yourself and, you know think of the numbers and things, think how you can refine things that you’re doing in the podcast. To help increase those numbers and make them go up. But yeah, I yeah. This is my simple opinion on that. Yeah, thank you. I, yeah, I’m, I don’t remember when I last looked at them, but it’s, oh, I do remember. Actually, it was when I changed from four podcasts to two podcasts, because I, I did a [00:37:00] test and said, okay, I’m going to do, you know, six months of that and then see where the numbers are. And the numbers didn’t change. Yeah. So I had, that’s amazing. I had less. And the numbers stayed the same. So I was like, well, okay. They didn’t increase obviously, but the people still. And you know, so yeah, to me it was like, okay. But then. Maybe the last point I want to address, because one of my favorite podcast hosts and a past business coach, Jenny Blake, she has two podcasts. One is called Free Time and the other one is called Pivot. And she just announced that she’s going to stop both podcasts and take the pause and she’s been podcasting also for a very long time. And so, the question, I guess, is like, well, And I think she [00:38:00] was, like, really going all in. And she said it like that. She was going all in and probably hoping to have sponsorship and make it the, you know, her business, basically. And so that’s a complete different strategy. Right? It is if we compare, podcasts with the, you know Rogan, what’s his name? Yeah. Sorry. I forgot it. Joe. Joe Rogan. No. Yeah. I think so. Sorry. Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan. Yeah. Is it Joe Rogan? Yeah. So if you compare with those big guys, then obviously, You know, we, yeah, it’s not even worth getting started. Let’s just say, so it really depends. I guess we’re coming back to this definition of success. How, how do you define success? Do you want to make money on this podcast? Well, that’s a different ball game, right? If the, the podcast itself, [00:39:00] and I’m not talking getting clients, but the podcast itself, if you want to hit sponsorship. Completely different ballgame, so that’s not what we’re talking about here but it’s important to be realistic about this goal. And that’s also one of the reasons why I reduced to two episodes, and then in a way I almost reduced it even further down because now One of the episodes is also a collab partnership that I do for the workshop. So it’s kind of like two in one. And so I really just reduced the time commitment for my podcast because, you know, it’s like, that’s what you do. It’s like, well, you, you either invest time. Or money or money. Yeah. And then you see what comes back. So yeah, do you have those kind of conversations as well? Clients to really make sure that their expectations [00:40:00] are aligned with what what it is. they can get out of this podcast. Definitely do. And those conversations usually come up from people who have been podcasting for a while, for a while that now they want to, you know, have sponsors and make a little money over all of the podcast, which is definitely but there are a lot of factors, like it’s a whole nother conversation, talk about sponsorships and how you can get sponsors or even getting on a network. There are different ways that you can make money over the podcast, but I wouldn’t say that a podcast can like sustain you can bring you, you know, a sustainable amount of money each month to, you To be actually sustainable to become a business or at least I, I haven’t, like, I haven’t worked with those big guys who, who are making money, like even just with an episode, but yeah. [00:41:00] So That is the reason I recommend going more and focusing more on the building relationships aspect and even getting clients rather than, you know, focusing on sponsorships, ads, and ads, yeah, definitely ads is, ads are helpful. I, I recommend. People to have like more of a self promoted ad self, you know ads about your offerings, promotions, or collaborations with someone. But yeah, I wouldn’t recommend someone to start the podcast if the, the ultimate goal is to make money off of it or, or make it a business because it’s not impossible, but it’s, it’s really tough and it takes a lot of time to get there. Yeah, thanks for thanks for being real. I think that’s yeah, really important here. As [00:42:00] we’re wrapping up 2 more questions. Where do you see the future of podcasting? And then I’ll ask you the last question, but let’s go there 1st. The future of podcasting. So that’s really interesting. I feel like podcasting is going all in, in the video aspect. So I feel like many audio podcasts and audio shows will be You know, we’ll switch to video first shows because of the recent changes of Google podcast shutting down and YouTube taking over. And it makes sense like for audio shows to become video first shows. So I feel like the interaction part and the engagement part will become more. Will become easier if we’re thinking that more and more shows are becoming video shows. So, you know, [00:43:00] the, the, these difficulty that has been. So far to connect and interact with listeners will be easier, I guess. And yeah I think that more and more shows will also be able to make money off of the podcast or to, you know, To achieve their objectives, whatever they are because the features and because of the expansion, you know, of, of podcasting features and YouTube is investing so much into podcasting. So I think the industry will be will grow like, Has been growing rapidly, but the, the growth will continue to surprise us with the power of podcasting. Nice. I’m glad I’m I made that switch and I’m posting everything on YouTube as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, [00:44:00] definitely. Well, this has been really, really great. Thanks so much for, for being here and answering the questions that y’all had about podcasting. Podcasting. I always ask one last question and that is what are you grateful for today or this week, Krista? Oh, that’s a wonderful question. So I’m grateful for it’s not related to the business. I’m grateful for having my business and for all of my clients that I adore, but I’m most grateful for becoming a mom and, you know, getting to know baby that I just love so much and grateful for having a family, you know? So yeah. Wonderful. This is what I’m grateful for. Yeah. Is he sleeping right now? Is the baby sleeping right now? No, no, no. The baby is, is out for a walk with his dad. Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much [00:45:00] for, for being here, Krista. It’s been a pleasure. so much for having me. It’s been really great, great to talk to, talk with you and talk about a little about podcasting.

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We’re Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

Join us for another episode on the Humane Marketing podcast as we explore how to ethically partner with AI, with our guest, Naully Nicolas. We talk about Naully's journey into the world of artificial intelligence, the crucial ethical and legal considerations surrounding AI implementation, and how AI empowers us to work smarter, not harder. Naully shares his PLATON framework, inspired by Plato and infused with philosophical principles, guiding us through the pillars of legality, accountability, transparency, objectivity, and neutrality. Together, we envision the future of AI and work, inspiring us as Humane Marketers to embrace technology with empathy and mindfulness, shaping a future where humanity thrives alongside innovation. What we addressed in this conversation: How Naully got interested and started with AIThe ethical and legal considerations of AIHow AI enables us to work smarter not harderNaully's PLATON framework, based on Plato and philosophical considerations (principles, legality, accountability, transparency, objectivity and neutrality, because in French Plato has an N at the end)How Naully sees the future of AI and workand much more... --- Ep 187 whole episode Sarah: [00:00:00] Hello, Humane Marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non pushy. I'm Sarah Santacroce, your hippie turned business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama bear of the humane marketing circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you're ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what we're doing. Works and what doesn't work in business. Then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way. We share with transparency and vulnerability. What works for us. And what doesn't work so that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane. marketing forward slash circle. And if you prefer one on one support from me, my humane business coaching could be just what you need, whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea like writing a book. I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15. Years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my Mama Bear qualities as my one-on-one client, and find out more at Humane Marketing slash coaching. And finally, if you are a Marketing Impact pioneer and would like to bring Humane Marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website. Humane dot marketing. Hello, friends. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast. Today's conversation fits under the P of partnership, I'd say. We're partnering with AI. If you're a regular here, you know that I'm organizing the conversations around the seven P's of the Humane Marketing mandala. And if you're new here and this is your first time listening, well, A big warm welcome. You probably don't know what I'm talking about, these seven [00:03:00] P's in the mandala. Well, you can download your one page marketing plan with the Humane Marketing version of the seven P's in the shape of a mandala at humane. marketing forward slash one page. Humane. marketing forward slash one page. That's the number one and the word page. And this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different P's for your business. For this conversation about partnering with AI in a humane way, I brought in my colleague, Noli Nicola. Noli is renowned Digital transformation consultant with over 16 years of experience in I. T. engineering and 12 years in marketing specializing in emerging technologies like web three, the metaverse and A. I. Noli provides pragmatic advice to business leaders. Particularly in [00:04:00] SMEs, navigating the complexities of the digital age. His stoic philosophy combined with a profound understanding of the digital landscape makes him an invaluable guide for companies seeking strategic opportunities in technology. So what we addressed in this conversation with Noli is how he got started and Interested in AI, the ethical and legal considerations of working with AI, especially as a humane marketer, how AI enables us to work smarter and not harder, Noli's framework based on Plato and philosophical considerations. Principles, legality, accountability, transparency, objectivity, and neutrality. Because in French, Plato is Platon and has an N at the end. [00:05:00] So that's where the neutrality comes from. And then also how Nolly sees the future of AI and work and so much more. So I'd say without further ado, let's get into it. Hi Noli, how are you? Como ti va? Naully: I'm fine, and you? Sarah: Yes, I'm great, thank you. You're in the middle of a move, so very stressful. We can't really use AI to help us move yet, or can we? Naully: Yes, I also I hope I use AI maybe for to do the planning for my moving, so it was quite useful. Sarah: Oh, wow. You'll have to tell us more about that. But yeah, I'm glad to have this conversation in between trips and moving boxes and things like that. Because yeah, we're, we're super excited to have you come and teach an in depth workshop on May 1st. [00:06:00] And, and this is just kind of like a teaser and I'll ask you some questions that we then also have more time to go in to on, on May 1st. And so. If you're listening to this and feel like, Oh, I want more of this content. And please join us on May 1st that it's a 90 minute workshop, humane. marketing forward slash workshop, but let's dive into it. And I'll, I'll just kind of start with how did you get into AYA, AI NALI and, and, and like, what does it represent for you in this day and age? Naully: How I discovered AI, I would say it's a normal step in my long career because I've been working for almost I would say 19 years into the IT universe. So, and also since my childhood, I was very curious, I like to dismount my own [00:07:00] PC and remote the remote again the PC. And it's also. On my personal view, I was there during the, the passage between the old internet, which was the I would say the effects of Minitel for some, and let's say the first browsing on internet. So it was like into the nineties, I think, around, around this era. And Then I work in IT for almost 20 years and I saw the progress. Also, I saw the constraint also of let's say the digital world. And I discovered AI when I was, reading a book, I would say it was not only, I would say sci fi books, but also I would say it was, I came across a book, so I don't remember the name and I was sure that in the next step of our digital world will be the AI. And And I was able also to sense [00:08:00] the switch between the, let's say, all the world. And I'm not that old, but the way that we interact with the computer and the new way that we are in this AI universe now. Sarah: Do you feel like we're completely there in the AI universe or we're still like at the very beginning of it? I Naully: think we are in the beginning because most of them. Approach that we have is only true chat, GPT and code and song, but I think it's only the tip of the iceberg because maybe your audience don't really make sense, but we're already using AI in every day. So, for example, for in Spotify, for example, it's an algorithm, it's not AI per se, but we are using the data, right? Yeah. Like when you're browsing on Netflix or something. It's a kind of [00:09:00] AI, which is gripping you the best show after you finish one. I'll tell you how you finish this show, there's also this one in which you might be interested. So, Sarah: yeah, so it's, it's kind of this blurry line between algorithms that are kind of gearing us towards where they want to go. And then also. Yeah, AI for like what you said, planning things like a move and, and probably if you can plan a move with AI, you can also plan a vacation with AI. Like you can do so many things and, and we'll get into some more of that. But I think when I brought up the topic of AI and. You know, Chachi PT is kind of the most note one right now. In the humane marketing circle, our community, there's a lot of I wouldn't, maybe a day, a day wouldn't say it's fear, but I think it's fear or [00:10:00] hesitation. And then there's also all these ethical considerations, which. Obviously are very important for someone who's doing humane business and humane marketing. So, yeah, what are some ethical considerations we should keep in mind when, when we're going down this road of using AI in our business? Naully: I would say if we talk in terms of fear, I can say we have the same when I would say the first software network appears. So because some people are afraid to me on Facebook, never, never, never, never. Some people switch to to Facebook anyways, but I think the thing different with AI is the fact that they can aggregate a lot of data, which are mostly it's a personal data. And also the carry things is they can be more [00:11:00] personalized that before, because I would say before we look up information into Google, but now we can create our own, I would say chat GPT with in every sector, for example, but I can create a personal coach GPT, which contains all my Let's say, personal view or approach that no other coach can have. And there is the main, let's say, reflection about what, what are stored, those data, because now we can put, let's say, more personal data, like the, the people that we have interaction with, name, date, address and so on. And those that are located in country who are less more, I would say, regarding internal flow. For example, in the US, we have the Patriot [00:12:00] Act, in which any federal agency can look into those data without asking you. So that's why in Europe they have the G-G-D-P-R. Sarah: mm-hmm . Naully: And now they in, they want to enforce the EU Act in, which is a kind of G-E-D-P-R for ai. So it's to determine which is the good usage of AI and which is the, would say risky usage of hair. Sarah: They're trying to kind of come up with laws. They're catching up, really. They have to catch up. Yeah, because there Naully: is some issue, for example, with AI using for credit score, for example, because we have to we have to determine who is responsible for these tools. Sarah: It Naully: is the developer. It is the person who is using the tools. Or this is the user, [00:13:00] Sarah: right? Naully: So I would say the same, like if you buy a car, there is a responsibility. It's the one who drives the car, that's the car manufacturer, Sarah: right? Naully: So, Sarah: so the Naully: ethics is the main, I would say the main point of ethics in AI is to determine the responsibility. in the creation and the use of those tools. Sarah: Right. Yeah. Because I think the one thing to keep in mind is that you can always go. Either way, right. You can use AI for good, or you can use AI for evil. And that's what we're all afraid of. When we talk about, oh, AI is going to take over, the robots are going to take over, well, we're afraid of things going in the wrong direction. And so is that what they're now trying, trying to kind of come up with legal responsibilities of who's [00:14:00] responsible for what? Naully: Yeah, I, as I said before, it's. It's not perfect or ideal, but it's better than nothing because at least we have a framework in which someone can and which some people can refer to, so it's not the wild, wild west in terms of AI, so there's some moral, moral and legal framework. In the use of AI, Sarah: right? Is this what happened after Elon Musk and a bunch of other people sent that open letter? Was that in response to that or kind of happened Naully: anyway? I think it's that. But also there is the thing that. They don't want to this kind of tool to be out of control because things can go badly and we can see in country like China that are using AI not. In the right use, [00:15:00] mostly for surveillance of their steel. And I think the country in Europe, they don't want to that rule. So, so, and I think also there is some moral issues of also, of kind of still. Sarah: Right, right, yeah, it's interesting because everything happens so fast that governments and legal people, they, they have a hard time catching up with everything because that's, that's from the old paradigm. So it's just like very slow and admin heavy and all of that. Right. So you think there is ever going to be a point where. They're on the same page and they caught up. Well, Naully: there is now, I think, more and more countries are, I would say, are just according to the same principle, because I think there is, I would say, there is some universal [00:16:00] principle that you will find anywhere in the world. It's the world of justice. Sarah: I think Naully: everyone want want to be as the Stanford justice, and also to have the opportunity to questions also the AI, because it's like, Well, you're, let's say, in your common life, you're also the right to question if you're arrested by a police officer, you have the right to, to have a lawyer and also to to be in a tribunal. So it should be the same also when we use AI for this, I think it's the kind, it's the same. Universal principle that you can find in any country from Switzerland to France to Peru, anywhere. So, Sarah: yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we went in a bit big picture in terms of, you know, what needs to change in a society on the legal aspect, the justice aspect for us in order to, to [00:17:00] work with AI. But now if we take it down to our entrepreneurial level, how can we. integrate in, you know, AI in our businesses in a way that is. Ethical and makes us work smarter and not harder, but also stays away from like, the one thing that I don't like about AI is, is this push towards even more productivity, toward even more working and, you know, more hustle. And I'm like, well, no, I think that's getting it wrong. It's like, we have this amazing tool that helps us actually. Work smarter, not harder, but then freeze us with more time to be more human. That's the way I look at it. So what are some practical ways that you have worked with entrepreneurs that they use [00:18:00] AI to work smarter and not harder? Naully: But the first thing that I told my. Entrepreneur is that AI is not there to replace you, but to help you. So you should consider AI as a tool because AI is not perfect because by extension, AI was created by a new man. So the human is not perfect per se. So also AI are subject as we call hallucination because. Yeah, it's predicting, let's say, words, it's not contextualizing the words, so you have also understand the limits of the AI because it can be considered as a magic tool can rule, but you have also to understand that AI has also its own limits. So you won't, you won't pass you in any ways, you will simply help you [00:19:00] maybe in turn now in term of workload, I would say that. AI is a good tool if you want to, I don't know, manage your content. For example, if you are someone who loves to write content, it could be a good assistant, but it won't replace you to create your content, but also it can help you to I don't know, create a content schedule for the next two, once a month, next two months. And then you can schedule those contents and then you can sort of manage your day to day life also easier because you already create your content for the month for the next two months. So you can maybe take a day off because usually before you took, well, I don't know, one week to create your content, to write it and publish it. And those, I would say, save time, you [00:20:00] can save it elsewhere. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. You can actually invest it in the human relations, right? Yeah. Have, have coffee with a friend or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And I like how you said you can help you, it assists you, it can help you with brainstorming ideas and, and give you content ideas you know, never ending lists of content ideas. Yeah. And it can then even help you, guide you through writing it. But I think we should not just rely on AI to now take over all the writing because knowing you and what you write, I would definitely be able to tell, I think, if all of a sudden it would just just be AI writing it. Yes, you can train it to a certain extent probably to, you know, have talk like you. And that's what I'm experimenting with as well. But then I [00:21:00] still. Go in, like I still am the manager, right? And AI is the assistant and then I have to change it and make sure it speaks like I do. So I think that's really important to understand because What we see a lot out there is like these bland sounding things, right, that you can tell, oh, this is just like, you know, AI created content that has no humanness and no personality to it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then Google actually just said that they're starting to punish the pages on Google that are only content, I mean, AI created. So that's a, that's a good good move from them. Obviously they're a bit scared as well, I think, but yeah, I think that's a good move. So where would we, would you tell. Actually, before, before that, I, I [00:22:00] know you have this framework based on Blayton. Yeah. And, and so I, I'm just wondering if you could explain a little bit. Your approach to philosophy and AI, because that kind of, from hearing that, that kind of sounds like an, it's, you know, an oxymoron, like how do those two go together? But Naully: tell us more Sarah: about it. Naully: Yeah, for sure. So I, I, I'm always being, I would say I'm a huge history buff. So I always has book in my house and I love read books about history and all kinds of books could be philosophy, psychology, and I found that philosophy was a good way to be grounded in what we are doing and all what we are thinking, especially in this time with everything is going so fast and we can be so lost [00:23:00] rapidly. And during my one of my reading, I came across a biography of. Plateau, which is plateau in French. And I was thinking that maybe we could use some aspect of the story, story season, but in how we approach technology, because sometimes we are using technology because we have. We are using it, but we don't really think what we do with it project. So that's how I came up, I came with this idea of Platon, which is put in French. And the first, let's say P is for principle in the wishes. What are the, the principle that I put it in my content, it could be also in my content or the principle that on why I'm using the ai. So it ask me to [00:24:00] myself when I'm using a tool, which could be charge GPT and some to ask me what are the consequence of using this tool if the tool are, I would say. Ethically based or the people are treated, I would say, correctly or humanly. And then the L can stand for legality. Maybe it's more about when I'm using an AI tool is my content is not under, it's not copyrighted by someone else. And actually, there is a huge debate about AI, because mostly they are using data scrapped from the internet, and most of the data are copyrighted. Sarah: So, Naully: so you need to ask yourself, is the thing that I'm using is completely legal or not? Then there's the A, [00:25:00] which is for accountability, which I have to be concerned that I'm using a AI tool. Don't say that if for example, if I'm putting wrong information, because I use AI tool, I have to count accountable after I, that I put, if I use, for example, if I'm using a AI tool like me Journey, maybe I should be aware that maybe I'm using copyrighted. Image from illustrator and maybe if needed, but who put any annotation when I'm using those kind of image also to be transparent and the T for transparency. So for example, is to be transparent in the use of AI tool, especially if you're working for a journalist. You have to say that for example, that I, this part or this part of your article has been [00:26:00] written with the help of AI2 or this image has been modified by the AI2. For example, recently there is a journalist who made a Documentary about the young in Iran, and it's instead of using blurred image, they use the, he praised the faces of the person who are being interviewed with AI generated image. So, so they made a disclaimer saying that those people faces have been generated by AI. So, and O stands for objectivity. So you have to be like concerned or so, but on why you're using the AI in your marketing. It's of course, the N stands for neutrality, which it says that it's mostly when you're would say. Using AI to in marketing, it's saying that you are [00:27:00] using the tool, not in a harmful way. So you should be conscious that you are not using the tool to do arm on or give false information. Sarah: I love, I love that. I love these words. Let's so principles, legality, accountability, transparency, objectivity, and neutrality. Yeah, they, they sound very humane, like, you know, they're very humane words and it's, it's a really good idea to, yeah, to go into AI with these considerations, right? To, to think about that deeply And, and we'll talk more about that in the, in the workshop and, and I think you have some you've created a game, so I look Yes. Yeah. Taking some questions from that game around that framework. Yeah. So in terms of where we're going with this, because like you said, it's just, you know, the kind of like, we're just seeing a tiny [00:28:00] bit of the iceberg right now. So where do you think. We're heading in terms of entrepreneurs using AI, how is it going to take over more of our, yeah, workload and what so many people like last year, this year, I don't hear it so much anymore, but so many people were afraid of AI taking over their jobs. So, so yeah what do you see as future development? Naully: I think also people fear what they don't understand also, because really new is like the first internet came up. We had the same fear because people didn't know how. How to use it, what it is really, because, and I think it's, there is a lot of work in terms of education, in terms of educating people, because, I won't say it's difficult to stop technology. [00:29:00] So then it's better to. Learn it with it. That's to fear it. So I think also it's it asks us to maybe to embrace the change because a lot of people don't like to change. Also, and for some people change bring fear because fear, but maybe they have to, if they work for a job, like, I don't know, like service job for like the 10 last year. Maybe they need to go to school again. So maybe they don't have the money or don't have the energy or maybe they're near from the retirement. So they ask, they ask themselves why they, that I need to go to school because I just have to five years to work, then I will be able to retire. And I think, I consider we are on a good path. It's not the perfect one, because at [00:30:00] least we are not into the apocalyptic one, the one we can see into the movie, because I think we can, we are able to see the fear. Also, there is some people who are pro, some people are against. I think neither side does. The monopoly of a reason and for now, I think it's in, in between, I think we should be in both sides. Maybe you have fear of maybe this technology, but also we can embrace technology because maybe they can help us to with our current, I would say. On environment issue, for example, or or maybe with a social issue also. So I think it's there's a lot of challenge for this technology and it's difficult to say what happened in five years, 10 years because they're in a few months, every, every two, every [00:31:00] two weeks, the new AI app. So it's difficult to say what, what the future brings. Sarah: Yeah, it will happen so fast though, right? Like that's the main thing with this AI technology. It's like, like I remember when Chachi PT came out, well, it's been already out, but nobody talked about it. And then within, let's say three weeks, everybody was talking about it. And so that's probably going to happen again with the next thing and the next thing, and the next thing, and. And what I like that you said is like, yes, we're on the right path because it would be probably really spooky if there was no fear at all like that. And I think that's kind of where Elon Musk and the gang, they got a bit freaked out because they're like, whoa, like this is going too fast. So they backed up a bit. And, and so I think that's a healthy. [00:32:00] kind of relationship to, to something new that, that we need to learn to live with. And so I appreciate that. Naully: I think it's I love to compare AI like the yin and yang. Sarah: Mm. Naully: It's like it should be equ equilibrium between those two. Sarah: Yeah. Mm-Hmm. Naully: it can be good, it can be bad. I think it's a mix of, can be cannot, it can be not. Also fully and utopia. Or fully a dystopia. Sarah: Right. Naully: I think it should be both at the same time, so. Sarah: A little mix. A little mix. Naully: I think it's like, I think I think it's like us. I think we, there is some day we are full of energy. Some day we are just, we just want to lay in bed all day. And I think it's this the circle of life also, we have your spring, summer, autumn, [00:33:00] winter, I think it's a cycle. So, Sarah: yeah, and you're right. I mean, it's in the end it's created by humans. And so it's still the humans that influences AI. And so if humans. Right now you can't say that humans are all good. Like we're in one of the biggest messes that we've ever been in. And so how can we expect the AI to just be beautiful and loving and all of that. So I feel like if we're working on becoming better humans, then the AI. We'll follow that trend. So that's, yeah, that's kind of my thought on that, but yeah, any, any closing thoughts that you have, that you, like what you're going to talk about on the workshop, maybe give us a, a little sneak preview of, of what we're going to do there. Naully: I [00:34:00] think we are, we are going to the. Ethics of AI and also the the ground base also of ai, which is which, which is where is it is and which is, is not, mm. Sarah: Right? Yeah. And then also doing some, some breakout rooms, right? And, and, and also, yeah, working on, on different, Naully: so we'll do some workshops and, Mm-Hmm, , all the, the, the pattern framework is working. Sarah: Yeah, I, I look forward to that framework and the, and the questions from that. So yeah, exciting. So yeah, again thank you so much for coming on, Noli. And if you're listening to this and you're interested in AI, but you're just a little bit also afraid of, you know, how does it work in a, in a business that is supposed to be humane. In marketing, that is supposed to be humane. Well, I invite you to join us for this workshop on [00:35:00] May 1st with Noli, because we're definitely going to approach it from the humane side of things. So, Naully: I just say, I just want to say that you mean it's always in loop AI or Sarah: not. Say that again. I didn't. Naully: I would say the AI human is always in the loop or not. So, yeah, Sarah: yeah, that's, yeah, that's nicely said. So yeah, do join us on, on May 1st go to humane. marketing forward slash workshop to reserve your seat and Noli and I look forward to having you there. Thanks so much. You're there. Yes. Thank you. Thanks for coming on to the podcast as well, Noli. I hope you got some great value from listening to this episode. Please find out more about Noli and his work at nolinicola. ch and [00:36:00] join us on Facebook for a 90 minute workshop on May 1st in the safety of our community, the Humane Marketing Circle. Members can attend these workshops for free, but you can join us with a pay what you can amount between 15 and 27. Find out more and reserve your spot at humane. marketing. com. And if you are looking for others who think like you, then why not join us in the humane marketing circle? Find out more at humane dot marketing forward slash circle. You find the show notes of this episode at humane dot marketing forward slash H M 1 8 7. And on this beautiful page, you'll also find a series of free offers. Such as the Humane Business Manifesto and my two books, Marketing Like We're Human and Selling Like We're Human. Thank you so much for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who [00:37:00] cares for yourself, your clients, and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers. So go be the change you want to see in the world. Speak soon.

Welcome to another episode of the Humane Marketing podcast. In this episode, we delve into the realm of humane video with Lou Bortone, exploring how video content can be a powerful tool for authentic connection and trust-building in today's business world.  Join us as we uncover the core principles of creating videos that resonate on a deeply human level, discover the importance of authenticity in fostering a loyal audience, explore cutting-edge AI tools for video creation, and gain valuable insights into future trends and actionable tips tailored specifically for solopreneurs.  Get ready to be inspired and equipped to use video as a means to stand out authentically and thrive in your business endeavors. In this conversation with Lou, we addressed the following talking points: How Lou got started with video and has seen it evolve into a tool for humane and authentic connectionThe core principles of creating video content that resonates on a human levelHow authenticity builds trust and a loyal audienceTools for video creation, including AIFuture trends and actionable tips for solopreneursand much more... --- Transcript 186 Sarah: [00:00:00] Hello, Humane Marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non pushy. I'm Sarah Zanacroce, your hippie turned business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama bear of the humane marketing circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you're ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what we're doing. Works and what doesn't work in business, then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way. We share with transparency and vulnerability, what works for us and what doesn't work. So that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane. marketing forward slash circle. And if you prefer one on one support from me, my humane business coaching could be just what you need, whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea, like writing a book. I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15 years. business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my mama bear qualities as my one on one client. You can find out more at humane. marketing forward slash coaching. And finally, if you are a marketing impact pioneer and would like to bring humane marketing to your organization, Have a look at my offers and workshops on my website at humane. marketing. Hello friends, welcome back to another episode at the Humane Marketing Podcast. Today's conversation fits under the P of promotion of the Humane Marketing Mandala. And I'm talking to a long time online friend, Lou Bortone. If you're a regular here, you already know that I'm organizing the conversations around the seven P's of the Humane Marketing Mandala. And if you're new here and don't know what I'm talking about, you can download your one page marketing plan with the Humane Marketing version [00:03:00] of the seven P's of marketing at humane. marketing. com. One page, the number one and the word page. And also just a reminder for my non native English speakers, humane is with an E at the end. So it's not human, it's humane. So humane with an E dot marketing forward slash one page, the number one and the word page, and this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different P's for your business. All right, let me tell you a little bit about Lou and from his bio, you will kind of immediately kind of grasp his sense of humor. If Don Vito Corleone, Marty Scorsese and Jerry Seinfeld got together to make an AI baby, you might end up with Lou Bortone. Lu is known as the Video Godfather and is conciliare to some of the brightest names in digital marketing. [00:04:00] He's a video marketing expert, an author, speaker, and host of the Godfather podcast. Prior to becoming a video printer, Lu spent more than 20 years in the television business before being run out of. Hollywood. Lou is also a father to twins, a rescuer of pugs, and an expert at Italian curses. I'll always remember meeting Lou in real life back in, I think it was 2017, when he picked me up in a Red Beetle or something. Like that at this tiny train station in Camucho Cortona and, and that's in Tuscany and then drove us up the hill. And I could tell he had no experience with stick driving to our retreat house for the week. And these in person meetings are really just so special in this online world, aren't they? So that's why I went back to Lou for this episode [00:05:00] around video. So in this conversation with Lou, we addressed the following talking points, how Lou got started with video and has seen it evolve into a tool for humane and authentic connection, the core principles of creating video content that resonates on a human level, how authenticity builds trust. And a loyal audience, tools for video creation, including AI tools, future trends and actionable tips for solopreneurs to get started or to get better with video and so much more. So let's dive into this conversation with Lou Bortone. Hey Lou, so glad to see you again and get a chance to talk shop with you about video. And of course, in the off recording, we talked about Sicily because we have a common love for everything Italy, right? Lou Bortone: Exactly. Yeah. And you're one of the [00:06:00] online folks that I've actually met in real life. So that's right. Sarah: Yeah. Which is always, you know, it's such an exception. And so it's yeah. Something special. I, I was part of your, what do you call it? Mastermind Lou Bortone: or Tuscany and yeah, and we had the few years of the little interruption of the pandemic and all that, but hopefully that's all behind us. Yeah. Sarah: Yeah. That was amazing. Loved it. Cool. So I have you today to talk about video and we were just, Discussing, well, maybe we're going to call it video like we're human or YouTube, like we're human or something like that. And then you share it that you just kind of focus a lot on the trust and authenticity. And so we'll definitely get into that. So really looking forward to it. Why don't you start by sharing how you got. Into video how you you know, you're calling yourself the godfather of video, tell Lou Bortone: us Yeah. [00:07:00] The long and circuitous route too. And you know, it's funny 'cause I think people call me that because they know of my love of Italy and Sicily and the Godfather, but all really, because I've been doing it for a really long time. So I was in the television business for many years in Los Angeles and I think it was probably around. 2000 on 1998 that I really got online and started to do things online. And when our twins were born, we decided, well, let's leave, you know, Hollywood and La La Land and go some, go back to family and in Boston. And that's kind of when I started doing the online video stuff which was fun because the way I discovered YouTube is that I was helping some people. Do a sketch comedy show for like a local cable access. And we started to put the videos on YouTube and really get a lot of attention there. We realized, Oh, this, you know, we were kind of onto something. So I was on from a very early, you know, back in 2005 when YouTube started and I've been doing online video ever since. And I love it because [00:08:00] I'm an introvert and I don't have to be in person necessarily with people. And even though I don't love being on camera for me, it's a lot easier than in person networking. And I just love the fact that we can do this and sort of have our own TV station, our own podcast. I mean, 10, 20 years ago, this would have been impossible. So Sarah: yeah, that's how I got here. That's insane. It's like mind blowing that, you know, 2005, that it really seems like ages and ages, but that's Lou Bortone: when it came out. So I guess that's what, 18 years. Oh my gosh. I feel so old. Sarah: It really is a long time ago and of course, you know, it went through phases of ups and downs and, and it seems like right now it really is kind of like coming back and, and I want to know from you, why do you think that it has this comeback now? What, Lou Bortone: what, what? It's interesting. And it's the same with, you know, remember podcasting sort of cooled off [00:09:00] for a while and now it's harder than ever. I think part of it is that You know, when, when I was growing up, when we were growing up, you know, there were just a few TV stations and a few options. And now with YouTube and podcasts and streaming, you know, we've got access to, to the, to basically a worldwide audience every time we turn on our computer or our PC. Put our phone on. So I think that's part of it. It's just the accessibility and also the fact that folks who maybe are a little younger than us grew up with. They never didn't. You know, they always had Internet. They always had you do. They always had streaming and all this kind of stuff. So for them. A screen is a screen is a screen, they don't care if it's TV, they don't care if it's you know, cable, they don't care if it's YouTube, you know, whatever they're watching, they can watch anything, anytime, and that's why, you know, another crazy statistic is that YouTube has more viewers than all the U. S. TV networks, all the cable networks, all the streaming services, so when you think of TV, you don't usually think of YouTube, but [00:10:00] YouTube is TV, and TV is YouTube. Sarah: I mean, if we think of our kids, right, that's, that's all they're watching. They're not watching TV. It's Lou Bortone: definitely the YouTube. Multi screens. You know, they're, they're watching YouTube on a, on a traditional television screen, but they're on Twitter or X at the same time with their friends. And I don't know how they do it. I can barely manage one screen. Yeah. Sarah: Yeah. I also feel that. You know, we were also kind of part of the blogging era. And, and so I feel like, you know, Google has changed their algorithm again. And people are like, well, people don't really read blogs anymore. And we can't get any traction with SEO. Now that the market is getting flooded with all the AI content. So maybe it's also, do you think it's also because of that? People are like, well, at least that. That's what it was for me. I'm like, I got to pay attention to Lou Bortone: YouTube. Absolutely. And then the other thing with business owners, I mean, you know, we always read video is the way to [00:11:00] get the most amount of information in the shortest amount of time. So if we're all multitasking, we're all really over scheduled, we're all really busy. Oftentimes it's like, I can't sit down and read a newspaper. But what's that? You know, it's, I have to, you know, go to YouTube and find this quick answer. I have to go to see this thing on Tik TOK or, you know, so it's really just a great way to get access to any information anywhere in the world. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's, it's, it's, I love it, especially when it's timestamped. So it's like, Oh, I don't even have to watch the whole thing. It's just like, yeah, exactly. So, so yeah. Lou Bortone: So I think now the thing is that. The, the consumer, the viewer, it has more control than ever. Cause like I said, when we were at least in the U S when we were growing up, it's like you had three TV networks and, and they controlled everything. They controlled what you saw, what you heard. And now it's kind of like, well, the consumer can go anywhere they want and see anything they want. So they're completely in control now. Sarah: So that kind [00:12:00] of probably if someone has never done any video kind of sounds also intimidating because it's like, wow, like there's this giant audience out there. Okay. You already mentioned as an introvert, sometimes YouTube is actually probably easier than the networking thing, but maybe it also feels like, well. What am I going to share that hasn't already been said out there? Yeah. So what would you say to that Lou Bortone: question? I think, you know, everybody has their unique spin and everybody has their own, you know Perspective. So it's like you have something to offer. A lot of times if I'm working with my clients or students, they feel like, well, you know, like you said, well, you know, what can I say that hasn't already been said? And I tell them, look, you know, you have a message. You have a unique message. You have a unique way of doing things and your Passion to get that message out to the world has to be stronger than your fear of being on camera. Because again, you know, the other thing too is now that we're all able to be on camera, we're not walking the red carpet at the Oscars. We're just putting on a podcast or a YouTube channel [00:13:00] and showing up and trying to be authentic. Sarah: Right. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about this trust building and authenticity, like what are some key points here that maybe a story I can tell is like, I remember when I put up my first video and I just seen them all because I cleaned up my YouTube channel and I'm like, Oh my God, this is terrible. But I remember like really sweating it like, Oh my God, I have to prepare everything. Yeah. So. Like, do we really need to have this perfect video or how much of it can we just wing and really be just human and Lou Bortone: authentic? I think you can wing 80 percent of it, probably. I mean, I often make the distinction between quick videos and keeper videos. It's like, okay, a keeper video, your homepage video on your website, you know, you want to, you don't want to be in your pajamas, probably. If it's an important video that's going to have shelf life, like your homepage [00:14:00] video, or if you're selling, you know, a thousand dollar coaching program, you don't, you know, you want to look professional. So those keeper videos, you probably want to spend more time and effort on, but if it's, you know, quick tips, I mean, oftentimes I just think of something and then just go to YouTube and share it. So quick tips or Facebook lives or any kind of live video, it's really more about, you know, just showing up. And sharing your message and being authentic. And a lot of times people think video is about the technology. And what I try to sort of, you know, reshape that or respin it as, no, it's really about connection and relationships and engagement. It doesn't matter what technology we're using. It just matters that we're connecting and being authentic and sharing ourselves. Hmm. Sarah: I remember we, we did the workshop together or something about video for introverts back in the days. And, and I remember we did kind of have one module on, on on technology. And I'm thinking maybe that actually lost [00:15:00] a bit of importance now that. You know, we're so used to these shorts on YouTube and even famous people just kind of like filming themselves. You think it has changed maybe also over time? Yeah. And Lou Bortone: I think that the pandemics accelerated it really quickly because, you know, and basically in, you know, a day we all had to move to zoom and we had to move our events to zoom and we had to move everything online. So I think that just accelerated it. And, you know, it was almost like. You know, well, I don't have a choice. I have to be on camera because that's the only way I can connect with my audience right now, right? Yeah. And I think the other thing was now people realize, Oh, this is, you know, this isn't that scary. And this isn't that difficult technically. And we always hear about no like and trust. And I think people finally realized like, wow, this is a great way to build no like and trust. Sarah: Yeah, it's so true. I'm always surprised that people are watching whole episodes, you know, that I put [00:16:00] on the podcast as well, but no, people actually watched the YouTube version of it as well. And probably it's because that know, like, and trust, right? Lou Bortone: Yeah, definitely. The connection, the ability to watch it on the go, cause people are watching on their phones. And I did, you know, I've, I've done podcasting. Off and on, but the reason that I finally committed to doing a podcast was I saw a statistic that YouTube was now the number one source for podcasts, more than Apple, more than Google, more than Amazon people are going to YouTube for podcasts and whether that's just. Kind of listening to it when, you know, with a slide on the screen or having an actual interview or seeing the person on screen, either way there, it's become, you know, kind of the go to place to see and hear podcasts. Sarah: Yeah, that's interesting. I did see a difference between just having that slide and the moving, you know, lines which I did before. So I didn't have the video portion of [00:17:00] it. And now with, with the actual faces, like there is more engagement or there is more views because yeah, obviously it's more interesting to, to see two people talking than just a line. Yeah. Lou Bortone: Yeah. And that's the other thing that's been interesting too is now with all the AI stuff. It's like, I think there's going to be not really a backlash with AI, but more of a need for like, okay, I don't want to see a robotic, you know, synthesized video. I mean, yeah, I can create an AI version of myself. It's like, hi, I'm Lou, you know, and recreate my voice, but it's still not you, you know, it's still not the real person. Sarah: Yeah. And, and I really feel like that's why I like the really human and authentic videos the best, where you see some people, you know, they have like this fancy background and their logo is up there and their book is up there. I'm like, I get that from a marketing perspective, but. [00:18:00] It doesn't feel real. It feels like if I would see you on the street, I probably wouldn't recognize you because you're wearing so much makeup and I don't, yeah, I don't really recognize you. So for me, it's really that real humanness that comes across. Yeah, Lou Bortone: and that's why I like, you know, I don't do as much live video as I should, but I kind of call it like, oh, a live video is to come as you are party, you know, just show up and, and, you know, be yourself and don't worry that the dogs are barking in the background because that's the way it works, you know, like it's, there's going to be distractions, there's going to be craziness going on in the background, but that just makes it more real. Sarah: Talking about that. I just watched, remember that BBC interview where the walks in and then the baby rolls in and I just watched that Lou Bortone: again. Sometimes those are viral moments. Like, you know, the wife's son doing, trying to do a professional interview and the guy walks by. [00:19:00] You know, husband walks behind her in his boxer shorts, you know, it's like, we're trying to do video here, people. Sarah: And what, what I didn't remember is that that was in 2017. So way pre COVID. So that's why it was like super shocking. You know, back then we were all still like, Ooh, you know, has to be super professional. So I feel like a lot has changed since the pandemic. Yeah. And again, Lou Bortone: You have to find that balance because like I kid like you don't want to look like a hostage video. I mean, you don't want to have really terrible lighting and yeah, that it may be authentic, but it's still not easy to watch like if the lighting is really bad or if the audio is bad. So you have to find that balance between like, look, I have to, you know, look relatively professional, but I don't have to be so polished that I'm on doing an interview on CNN or something. Sarah: Exactly. Yeah, it's, it's true. It's that balance that you're still human and creating trust. But without looking [00:20:00] like, yeah, you're just going on CNN. So we talked a little bit about AI what I just recently started using is this Tool called Clip, Opus Clip or something. Oh yeah. Yes. Opus Clip. And it lets you create these little shorts from longer videos. Right. And, and I love that because it's repurposing existing content. And so, yeah, do you know any other great AI tools Lou Bortone: that people are using? I did a series on some AI tools and Opus Clip was one of them, which is great because if you're going to create content. You might as well get as much mileage out of it as possible. So if you're doing a podcast and you wanted to do clips from the podcast, or you want to do 60 second segments, Opus clip is great for that. Pictory. ai is really good because you can, you know, make your videos more professional and edit them and add, you know, B roll and background footage. And the one that I use probably every single day is descript. com. And the reason [00:21:00] I like that is because for people who are not You know, video editors, you can edit the text and all those changes are made, you know, you're basically editing a Word document and then the changes transfer the video. So I've been using that for pod, you know, to produce podcasts and really every kind of video because it's, it's really faster and you can look more professional and more quickly. Yeah, Sarah: and I love the fact that you just highlight all the ums and take them Lou Bortone: all out. Yeah, I had no idea how many times I used the words and until I found a descriptor like, oh, I can take out all the filler words with one click. And suddenly I sound smarter than I am. And I don't think that damages any of the authenticity or makes it any less real. It's just that like, oh, this is, it's going to be a little bit easier to look more professional without having to go through all kinds of crazy editing and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: Yeah, that's true. It doesn't feel like all of a sudden you sound like a robot. You just. I feel like, yeah, you sound [00:22:00] smarter because you're not constantly looking for words or, or, yeah, saying Lou Bortone: them that. And some of it's getting like, it's a little bit weird because there's a feature in Descript where if I'm looking at the screen, it will put your eyes back up to where the camera is. Oh, I haven't Sarah: seen that. Lou Bortone: Ooh, that's kind of, you know, it's kind of interesting. It's a little creepy, but it works pretty well. But again, it's about striking that balance. Like I could do videos where I say, you know, you sort of insert the name, like you do one video, hello. So, you know, it's like, well, obviously that's, you know automated. So you don't want to do so much automation that it's not, you know real anymore. Sarah: Right. Yeah. I guess that's a question that you get often is like, well, where should your eyes be when you're doing either self recorded videos or chats like this one? For example, me right now, I'm looking at the camera. I'm not looking at you, which I always feel like, oh, what a Lou Bortone: shame. You got [00:23:00] to sort of train your eyes. I'm like, Oh, you know, my mom said you have to look people in the eye. Exactly. Great, but the camera, the camera's eye is up here, so I cheat because I have like a little extra monitor up where the camera is, but if I was looking at the screen, it would be, it would feel like I wasn't connecting with you and I wasn't being as authentic because I'm not, you want to try to, the camera is the the other person's eyes. So that's the tricky part. Sarah: Yeah, yeah. What I do is this, because I'm recording on zoom, so I just make the screen of zoom very small and just shove it right under the camera. Lou Bortone: I know. So those kind of tricks of just, you know, try to look at the camera try to have, you know, adequate lighting But again, it's, you know, it doesn't take much. I, I, I like to have a setup where I can just say, okay, my camera is set up, my background's okay, my lights work, and I want to just be able to go. I don't want to have to spend 20 minutes setting up a video every time I do a video. Sarah: Yeah, exactly. It becomes kind of like a nuisance if you're, it feels like, Oh, [00:24:00] I have to do all this setting up. What about what about in terms of the, the body placement? Because one thing I noticed is when I put the things on Tik TOK compared to everybody else, my face was like, Oh God, this is like, this is no Lou Bortone: good. Consider where the person's watching from, and a lot of people are watching on their phone, especially if it's a vertical video. So oftentimes if I'm doing a webinar and I'm sharing slides that are landscape, I realized, well, I can't put this on TikTok or Instagram Reels because it's going to squish it. But like, again, using software like Descript, we can take a video like this and put, you know, the people, Vertically so that it still works. So what I do see a lot, and it's funny cause I did another video about this, is it just, people don't have a very good sense of the spatial awareness. Like there'll be way down here, like, hello. And the trick that I, I heard that works is that, you know, think in terms of like, you don't want any more headroom than you [00:25:00] could fit a golf ball on the top of your head. So. You know, you don't want to be too close. You don't want to be too, too far away. Sarah: So what about here? Like Lou Bortone: it's kind of like, I think, you know, we were used to seeing that from news anchors and TV. It's usually like, you know, the, the typical shot is head and shoulders kind of shot, but again you know, if there are people doing videos who are yoga instructors or something like that, they got to go way back and be No, I think it's really just a matter of being aware of where you are in the camera. Oftentimes we'll see on zoom maybe somebody's on a laptop and they're looking up and you're looking up their nose. It's like, that's no fun. You know, just try to. Have a straight on you know, and use the photography rule of thirds where your eyes should be on the top third of the line. And if you've got graphics, those should be on the lower third, which is why they call lower thirds. So it's just having a sort of a spatial awareness of where you are, what's going on on screen. Sarah: Right. Yeah. [00:26:00] Yeah. I think a lot of it also comes back to confidence and just doing it a few times and not caring if it doesn't look good and just keep doing Lou Bortone: it, right? Yeah. So it's funny when we do, like we did the video for introverts thing a few years ago, but when we do when I do these challenges, I say, you know I do my first video in the car after I just came from the gym. So it's like, okay, this is the worst I'm going to look. Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to set the bar really low so it can only get better. And you know, I'm in the car, the lighting's bad, I'm sweaty, but okay, I'm going to start there and then work my way towards better videos as I go. Sarah: Right. Yeah, that's a, that's a good way of putting it. And I remember those videos after kickboxing, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I don't know if I would bear that, but yeah. . Lou Bortone: Well, and I think, you know women have a harder time because of the expectations. Like, oh, you know, my hair has to look good and I have to be wearing. Right, whatever. But I think people are less concerned [00:27:00] about that now than they used to be. Sarah: I think so too. And it's so refreshing. Lou Bortone: Yeah. Cause we just show up on zoom and it's like, look, you know I just came back from the gym or I'm, you know, I've been doing this, that so it's really more about, you really have to. Focus on the message and not so much the quality is important, but it's, it's less important than, than your message and you, and what you're Sarah: delivering. You know what that makes me think of is it's funny that we haven't kind of changed our headshots yet to being more human because sometimes you go on somebody's website and it's this beautiful girl. Like. Once in a lifetime that they look like that. And then you see their YouTube videos and you're like, Oh, they're actually human, Lou Bortone: right? And I, I did have photos when we were in Italy. I'm like, Oh, I want to have my pictures with really old buildings in the background and things like that. And then when people show up, they're like, Oh, you don't look like you look on, on [00:28:00] screen. So I used to do a really silly trick. Okay. Back in the Photoshop days is I would make my image actually a little wider so that I'd look heavier. And then when I showed up in person, people would say, Oh, you have you lost weight? So I was doing that reverse Photoshop, like, well, I want to look better in person. So I'm going to, but again, it's, it's, it is all about that authenticity and connection. And I talk about building loyalty through video, because again, it's really more about A relationship than about what camera you're using. Sarah: Yeah, it really feels like it's. I explained it in levels of intimacy, right? And so people sign up to your newsletter that they get your emails. That's the kind of the low level or before that it's even social media. Right. And then there's a higher level is newsletter and even higher letter that level Dell will be YouTube or, you know, any kind of video. And then probably [00:29:00] zoom calls where it's like in person zoom calls and then the actual in person meeting. But yeah. I do feel already, you know, we're seeing each other's facial expressions and that, yeah, that creates trust and loyalty. I Lou Bortone: totally agree. Yeah. And again, you know, even though, thank goodness we're past the pandemic and live events are coming back and conferences are back, there's still going to be that hybrid events, people working from home much more than they used to. I mean, my kids who are 25 they have never worked in an office. Everything they've done is, is on screen, on zoom, on Google meet, whatever it is. That's just the way they work now. Yeah, Sarah: yeah, yeah. No, it's crazy. Yeah, it really is. So let us talk a little bit to wrap up around the future. So we mentioned AI, we mentioned that, you know, Google is not really easy anymore to have your [00:30:00] blog posts featured. So what is, what do you see the future of video? How do you see it? Lou Bortone: I think it's, you know, obviously there's going to be a lot more volume because people are going to continue to flock to YouTube and watch YouTube shorts. I think we're going to see, you know, shorter bursts of videos, like. TikTok and Instagram reels are going to continue and it's a little harder to make the connection there because you're on for a shorter amount of time. But I think we're going to see the shorter videos, promoting podcasts and longer content where you really can connect because again, you're obviously going to make a better connection with somebody if you're seeing or hearing them for, you know, 15, 20 minutes, rather than. Forty five seconds and i think the other thing is that there may be a little bit of a not really a backlash but sort of an anti AI thing like okay i've seen the robotic you know synthetic version of

In today’s episode we have the pleasure to talk to George Kao, a seasoned entrepreneur and advocate of authentic business growth. George unveils his 111 Formula, a holistic approach designed to cultivate authenticity in entrepreneurship. We explore why George views business as a practice akin to athletics, emphasizing discipline and continual growth. Discover what truly constitutes an authentic business and gain invaluable insights into effective market research. George shares his philosophy on "gentle launches" and explores the intersection of AI with authentic business practices. Tune in for an inspiring conversation that empowers entrepreneurs to navigate their business journey authentically and ethically. In this real conversation, we talked about: Why business is a practice - and why George refers to entrepreneurs as athletesWhat an authentic business really isHow to do market research and whyGeorge’s approach to launches (he calls them gentle launches)George’s shared fascination with AI and how he thinks it fits into an authentic businessOur Collab Workshop on April 2nd (go to humane.marketing/workshop to sign up)and much more... --- full Ep 185 Sarah: [00:00:00] Hello, Humane Marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non pushy. I'm Sarah Zanacroce, your hippie turned business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama bear of the humane marketing circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you're ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like minded people. Quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency, what works and what doesn't work in business. [00:01:00] Then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way. We share with transparency and build trust. Vulnerability, what works for us and what doesn't work so that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at Humane Marketing slash circle, and if you prefer one-on-one, support from me. My Humane business Coaching could be just what you need, whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea like writing a book. I'd love to share my brain and my. Heart with you together with my almost 15 years business experience and help you grow a [00:02:00] sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. If you love this podcast, wait until I show you my mama bear qualities as my one-on-one client. You can find out more at Humane Marketing slash. And finally, if you are a marketing impact pioneer and would like to bring Humane Marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website at humane. marketing. Hello friends. Welcome back to another episode. Today's conversation fits under the P of promotion, and I'm speaking to George Kao about how to grow an authentic business. If you're a regular here, you know that I'm organizing the conversations around the seven P's of the Humane Marketing Mandala. And if this is your first time here, you probably don't know what I'm talking [00:03:00] about, but you can download your one page plan with the Humane Marketing version of the seven P's of marketing at humane. George: marketing Sarah: forward slash one page, the number one and the word marketing. page and this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these for your business. You know, authentic business and George Cow is a business mentor who infuses his teaching with a unique spiritual perspective since 2009, he has been helping people. Thousands of coaches, consultants, healers, and course creators on their path to creating sustainable and joyful businesses. George has published five books spanning the topics of authentic business, content marketing, joyful productivity, George: and spiritual growth. In this Sarah: real world. Conversation, real and authentic George: conversation may speak about Sarah: why business is a practice and why George refers to entrepreneurs as athletes, [00:04:00] what an authentic business really is, how to do market research, and why George's approach to launches. He calls them gentle launches. It also feels like a struggle. George, it's shared fascination with AI and how he thinks it fits into an authentic business. George: When do I Sarah: my thoughts George: as well on that topic. Authentic business Sarah: tries to, I guess, solve both of those issues by, by bringing, I'm just going to say it like personal George: development or spiritual growth into all the actions we take in our Sarah: business. So for example George: in the beginning, you know, when we're struggling to get clients and clarify our message and all that stuff that process itself doesn't have to. It doesn't have to feel like, Oh, I'm postponing the fulfillment of my life and my, my purpose, but like the actual work of [00:05:00] clarifying and putting systems together can be done from a deeper purpose of service. Service to our higher self, actually, and then, of course, service to humanity or the people that we most have compassion for and want to want to support and uplift through the products and services of our business. So, it's like, it's like. No matter what stage we're at, whether we're, we're, we're like the, the, the struggling beginner all of that can be actions taken in, you know, like I said, in, in service or in, in, in in alignment with our deeper, more, Purpose of life so that it's not like, I mean, I use this, but then, you know, sort of mundane example of if you're doing bookkeeping and you're not a bookkeeper, let's say you're not, it's not something that you'd naturally love to do. You can be like, ah, let me just get this out of the way. And, oh my God, so it's such a, such a, so tedious to have to like, look at these numbers or whatever, [00:06:00] or you can take a moment and say, this is my life also like, like, this is not. Yeah. Do this so that I can have, I can live life. No, no. This very moment is life. And therefore, how shall I live? It's like, Oh, okay. Bookkeeping. How can I come to it with a perspective of curiosity about the numbers and what the numbers suggest to the greater narrative of what my business developing into, how can I bring focus? You know, can, how can I practice focus in this moment? How can I practice gratitude that I can even Even have a business or even, like, think about this, you know, or even work on numbers. You know, some people can't even don't even have a computer, right? Like, like, how can I have the gratitude? And what does this moment mean for my personal development? Like, right now, like, and we don't have to spend an hour journaling before we do it. I mean, literally, most of us, even if we took. Two minutes [00:07:00] to just pause and say, what is the meaning of this moment? And the, the potential deeper potential at this moment, it changes. And it's like, what if our entire day could be like this? And that to me is really the core spirit of authentic business is at the beginner. For the beginners like that, and then later on you know, businesses like yours and mine, where things are humming along, it's like, rather than just go, I'm making money now and whatever, but it's like, how can I yet again bring my money. Courage to be, to be vulnerably exploring what my, my true purpose is in my business and, and pivot when I need to, but it's all like, I think of it as marketing, the act of marketing is a business finding is calling, you know, it's a business exploring with the market and with ourselves, what the calling of the businesses. And at the same time, the actions of a [00:08:00] business is also a stage. Okay. For our continued personal evolution. And then, so it's like, no matter what stage of the business, the authentic part of it is how much soul is being placed into this moment. And if there is, if there's soul in this moment, then I say, Hey, that's off, that's an authentic business. So Sarah: that's yeah, you and I need to have a conversation about my third book. I'm working on business. Like we're human because what you just is, yeah, it's very much aligned with I, I feel like you've talked a lot about spaciousness as well, right. And just, Yeah, just being a human as well as having a business and, and oftentimes we feel like as entrepreneurs, we, yeah, we need to struggle so much. And that means filling our calendars to the brim because we're just [00:09:00] not doing enough. But what you're saying is the opposite is just like, well, the business, and I think in your YouTube video, you share that the business is a practice and authentic business is a practice. And so it becomes. Part of your life, like it fits into your life. Yeah. And it's not like we need to fit our lives kind of around our business. The, you know, few minutes that are left each day. So it's the, it's the other way around. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Another thing that I think oftentimes, and I'm curious what you, if you have the same feeling, authentic kind of became this buzzword a little bit. Yes. And it became this thing that we. Again, need to use our left brain in order to do authentic, like, you know, do authentic marketing. Well, here's the seven steps on how to do that. That's not what this is, George: right? Yeah. It's interesting. In 2023 Miriam [00:10:00] Webster, the dictionary company said the word of the year was authentic. Yeah. Yeah. So it really is literally a buzzword. And I feel like that the word of the year is often at least a year behind what the culture actually has been so authentic has been around for several years. I feel like as a, as a, as a very important or a very common kind of like bringing, bringing people back to, to what's meaningful for them. And anyway, but yeah, it's, I, I, I, so, you know, Appreciate this idea of practice, because to me, it's it almost doesn't matter what we're doing in our business. I mean, if, if, if we are, if we are living an authentic life, I mean, kind of kind of starting there. I mean, I mean, let's set aside authentic business. Like, the question is, are we living an authentic life? It's like, it's like, like, are we dedicated to living the most meaningful? And [00:11:00] highest life or deepest life, however you want to put it, like, if, if, yes, we are dedicated to that, why I don't see why, why the, I mean, those of us, those of you who are listening to this podcast, you're part of Sarah's audience, of course, you're dedicated to living the highest and the deepest life. It's like, what else is there, you know, what other possibility is there that actually draws us forward. And so if we are, in fact, have that passion and that dedication, then of course we have to bring that spirit into hopefully everything we do in our business. And the opposite of this is I often see come across spiritual teachers Well, they're spiritual teachers, so they must be dedicated to the highest and deepest and the best life possible. And yet I sign up for their email list or I follow them on social media or whatever. And their marketing is [00:12:00] just, it does. If there's like a, like, it's like a big. Disconnect between how they market themselves and how they sell their stuff to what they espouse as their principles and values. And I'm like, why, why is it that, why does business and marketing have to be. Different somehow, it's like separate thing. Yeah. It's like, it's like, oh, I, I, I'm, I'm very deep and, and, and real when I'm with my clients. And now let's do our marketing and using, you know, really manipulative funnels and really like scarcity type tactics. I'm like, what is going on here? It's like, why is there such a disconnect? It's kind of like the, yeah. You know, like the preacher who is so holy on, you know, on TV. And then, and then they have like some dark, you know, scandals and they're like, they're, they're, they're, they beat up their families and they cheat on their wives and it's like, it's like, it's this disconnect and, and and that's what I'm trying to say. Authentic means that you are authentic in, in everything that you do. [00:13:00] Yeah. Sarah: I think the issue is I, I kind of. Looked into that because of in the whole thing. Well, marketing like we're human selling like we're human business, like we're human. So what does it mean to be human? So I, I looked at Yuval Harari and one of the things that he shares is. One of the distinctions between us and other species is that we are myth makers. So we're really good at creating these new truths that we then all believe as humanity. And I think this online business world is one of those myths, right? And so everybody just started to believe. This is how business works online, or this is how online marketing works. And so even the, the really spiritual coaches, they're like, this is the mess that everybody is believing that myth. So I need to believe that [00:14:00] truth as well. And so that's why we need people like you are like, well, no, you don't have to believe this myth. There is another way, but I thought that was a fascinating concept. It's true. It's like, We decide this new thing, and then everybody follows, and that's what happened you know, 15 years ago. George: Really, really good observation. Yes it's there's, there's also this setting aside our inner authority. When it comes to, Oh, well, business, I'm not a business person. Well, I'm not a marketing expert. I'm a spiritual teacher or I'm a holistic healer, or I'm a life coach or that, that, that's, that's where I shine and I'll, I'll just, you know, business, they, they seem like they know what they're talking about with business and marketing, so I'll follow their systems that they're, they tell me the systems work, so let me just follow those systems. It feels off to me. It doesn't feel authentic to me, but it's going to get to an authentic end at the end when I finally can work with [00:15:00] clients. Right. And, and this is the old, you know, means to an end fallacy, which is, Oh, I just have to do this thing. That's soulless or that's not really me so that I can get to the part that is me. That is like, well, okay, particularly when it comes to your own business. Oh, you do it is going to be how you do end up doing just about everything else. So it's like the, the mindset you take on when you follow the mainstream business experts and the marketers ends up corrupting the mindset of your entire business and your audience feels that. I mean, this is why. People have been kind of looking at my stuff and following me for, for all these years. It's like they feel the difference. It's like there is a difference and they feel it. And I'm, and I feel it too, because I used to be, I used to be quite unhappy, deeply unhappy when I was following those systems without realizing that that's what I was doing was setting aside my own [00:16:00] authority to follow someone else's authority. Yeah, they said that, you know, even though it didn't feel right and finally, when I, when I get shut out all that stuff down and say, no, I don't have to do that. Let me try to try. It's what is could be an authentic way of doing business and marketing. It's like, oh, my gosh, I can really now settle deeply rest deeply and, and, and work deeply because now I see it as a practice. That's a soulful practice as well. Yeah, Sarah: that's wonderful. Yeah, exactly. All right. Well, we're hosting a workshop together on April 2nd, right? And it's called the 111 Authentic Business Formula. So tell us a little bit what this formula is about and it has all these different numbers and practices. So tell us George: a little bit. Totally. Well I'm yeah, I'm glad to be able to tell you about it. And I do hope those who are listening to this will sign up for our, our joint workshop [00:17:00] because this is where I'm going to dive, dive deep into the one 11 formulas. Okay. So, so why one 11, first of all, the backstory is I've always found that to be some kind of magical number for me 11, one 11, 11, 11. Those have been at times, I feel like at times, particularly when I needed, you know, encouragement or I guess, quote, unquote, self help. Signs from the universe that that, you know, I, I deeply believe this to be true for myself and for all of us that we are in some mysterious, magical way, being deeply taken care of and being guided. With a still small voice within us, and sometimes the universe is kind to give us little signals of like, yeah, just remember you're not alone and it's going to be okay and not just okay. You are on a brilliant path. It seems windy, long and winding road sometimes, but [00:18:00] it is a necessary path toward your Highest good and your ability to serve the world in the, in the most powerful way, authentically powerful ways possible. So the 1 11 has been that kind of number for me. So when I was you know, I get asked by my clients and students all the time. It's like, all right, just give us. Give us, you know, tell us exactly what to do, you know, and I always, I always kind of fight against that because I'm like that is the opposite of authentic. If I tell you exactly, exactly what to do on a Tuesday at 10 a. m. you should do this and Thursday at 2 p. m. you should do that. I'm like, then you are following my authority again, rather than. Discovering your own inner authority, but still they're like, yes, yes, we get it. We get it. We get it, but we still need more clarity. Some structure, please on what to do. I'm like, okay, okay, let me, let me try to put together a structure. That has embedded in it the wisdom of all my successes and failures and having worked with [00:19:00] hundreds of clients and seeing their ups and downs and it seems what seen what's worked and what, what are the pitfalls? Let me try to put this structure together. So that's what I did. I said, okay, if I could guarantee you success in business, an authentic business success, this would be my best bet. And I always say, no one can guarantee you success, of course. And if anyone is saying, I'm going to guarantee you, just sign up for my program. You should run the other direction because they are either lying to you or they are. Going to become your, your authority instead of either going to supplant your in our authority. And that's not good for your sovereignty. And and so I said, okay, this formula has a lot of wiggle room in it. I'm going to give you numbers, but the numbers are more of a suggested shall I say prioritization of sorts, but you can, of course, take this formula and make it your own. So I'll [00:20:00] give you I'll give you the sort of the quick overview of the of the. But what the numbers are, and then, you know, we could talk as much as we have time here about it. And we'll go, we'll dive deep in the workshop itself. So the 111 is made up of 111 components to this so called guaranteed formula, or the best that I can do. And it has, I'll just give you some of the numbers here so you can get a sense of it. It has 40 for zero content experiments, because I. Believe deeply, not just believe, but I've seen in my own life and in my clients and students lives, the way we really discover our voice as well as our message. As well as that blessed intersection between imagine your passion and natural talents. Okay. So what you're, what you're deeply built for and led toward is one circle. And the other circle is what the world needs [00:21:00] and wants at this time. And that blessed intersection between what you're built for and what you're led towards and what the world is wanting at this time, which is the market. Okay. What they're happy to spend money on, what they're, what they love to engage with that blessed intersection of the two of them that I consider is our authentic business calling. And we discovered that through content experiments. Okay. Meaning we, whenever we. Try sharing a message or we have an idea, and we're going to just put it out there and see if people get it. Oftentimes, they might not get it. We might be ahead of our time. So we're not might not be saying it in a way that is understandable yet to this to this. Anyway, so 40 content experiments are, you know, and with the one 11 is, you know, Loosely meant to be a 1 year plan, so in the 1 year, you kind of do this and so it's like 40 content experiments over the course of a year. Not too many. It's like, maybe 1 a week, you know, something like that. If you work 40 to 40 weeks in a year, and then we've [00:22:00] got 10 stage 2 content pieces and we're going to dive deep into in the workshop what this means. But essentially, when out of the 40 content experiments. Which of those 10, I mean, as you go along, every time you do four of them for content experiments, you look back and go, which of those four had the most engagement? This is a clue, an important hint. Into what my intersection is between what I love and what the world wants. Ah, okay. So the stage two is basically taking one of those four and improving it and distributing even further. Okay. So that's what stage two content. So 10, 10 of those. During the year, definitely not too many, and that's at stage 2 is what actually builds your audience for the 40 content experiments is for you. I mean, you publish it for you, you don't you don't worry about the metrics and whatever you analyze it afterwards after 4 of them, but the stage [00:23:00] 2 is really what's going to grow your audience over time because it's the best of. Okay and then and then so now we're up to 50, right? 40 plus 10. So now we have 20. Market research conversations. Again, we're going to dive deep into the, in, in, during the workshop, 20 market research conversations over the course of a year, it seems like a lot, but in my early years of authentic business, I was doing more like 40 a year. Actually. I was, I was sometimes even doing more than 40 a year and a market research conversation. What is that? It's you being in actual conversation. With another human being that you're able to reach. Okay. So one of your fans, one of your friends, one of your colleagues, one of your clients, past clients, et cetera, where you are asking, where you are talking with them about what it is that they want, because, and particularly what they want as related to the [00:24:00] kind of stuff you offer. So that those conversations bring huge clarity to, Oh my God, I should be offering this. I should be creating content on that. I should be selling this. I didn't even know. And I like being able to talk with people like this, especially like on zoom or video, you know, or in person, but like where you can see their expressions is hugely helpful. So, so those 20 market research conversations sometimes turn into clients also, but we're really approaching them as out of genuine curiosity and care. Yeah. Okay. So, so that's that. And then the next 20, there's 20 collabs, collaborations. And again, my favorite. Yeah, exactly. Here's what we're doing, right? This counts as one of them. Right. And in the, in the early days when I was trying to build my audience and grow my business, I was doing, I was doing 40 collabs a year. So I'm only asking for 20 from, from all of you. And again, these are all, there's no hard and fast rules, right? These numbers are suggested and you can always change them. Take them as [00:25:00] whatever fits your rhythm, but a collaboration is well, Sarah, you excel at these reaching out and connecting with colleagues whom you're fascinated by their work. And they probably are interested in you there. If they respond to you, they're at least interested in connecting. There's kind of a bit of a heart connection. And I really go with heart connections. I mean, I, I interviewed lots of people. I've interviewed lots of people over the years. Only certain one of them, certain few of them like you have a hard connection where I'm like, I want to keep up with this person. And it's like, you grow. So, so these 20 collapse over a year are not like, oh, I'm dedicated to these 20 people for life. No experiments. You're just reaching out and, and doing maybe doing an interview, interviewing them for your channel. That's the easiest for me is I interviewed people for my channel. Just kind of sense into that connection. Is there something more for us to keep doing together? If not, that's okay. At least I, I did them a little favor by sharing them with my audience and my audience. I did them a [00:26:00] favor by saying, Hey, check out this person who could be really cool. You might want to follow them too. Having that abundance mindset, as you do, Sarah, is, well, it's just makes us happier, number one, and I think it's more true. T with a capital T of what reality is. Anyway, so that 20 collapse Sarah: and I love how it feeds into the authentic, authentic business. Yes, yes. Because I used to, you know, before the humane marketing and everything, I used to like be in these joint venture clubs and affiliate clubs and it was nothing like that. It was not a collaboration. It was masked as a collaboration. But it wasn't, so it wasn't that authentic heart centered kind of George: connection. So I'm so appreciate you bringing that up because, Oh my gosh, I've been there. Maybe some of the people who listened to this have been there or have been invited to these kinds of things where they, they, [00:27:00] they, they sound like they care and like want to collaborate with you and say, Oh, we would love to have you in our, in our summit. Would you like to be a, one of our guest speakers? And then you reply back and says, Oh, that sounds wonderful. Sure. Sure. Well, yeah. Okay. So to be this, you have to have a minimum of 5, 000 email lists. You have to send two emails to your list of 5, 000 to be qualified. I'm like, okay, so you're really using my list to grow your list. Got it. And then once I, once I show up in the, the, the few times I've said yes to this kind of thing, I show up and sometimes they say, just go and record 20 minutes, you know, just go and record 20 minutes of something and we'll add it to our summit. I'm like, Oh, you don't really care, do you? You just want me to do whatever. And then, like, and then, like, I never hear from them again until several years later. Oh, let's do another summit where you can build my list. It's like, oh, yeah. So, you know, collabs are really an experimentation of, are you us? I mean, could I say this? Are you a soulmate? And [00:28:00] I believe in business. We have many soulmates. Are you one of my soulmates? Let me, let me, let's play together for a bit and see if it anyway. So, so 20 collabs and then moving on to 10 gentle launches, 10 offers and gentle launches. 10 over the course of a year. Now, again, this sounds like a lot, but let me tell you what a gentle launches, a gentle launch is not. All right, get ready for a 90 day, you know, challenge where you're going to have like 90 videos, you're going to make it, you're going to have this funnel where after the challenge, they get like five webinars until they join your year long. No. That's yeah, some people do launches like that and it exhausts me just to even talk about it. Okay. What a gentle launch for me is, is ridiculous, ridiculously light. It's two posts, two messages. That's it. Again, we're going to dive deeper into what these two messages are, but essentially it's It's a humble [00:29:00] and curious offering to your audience, the people you're able to reach. Even if it's right now, it's your, you know, 200 Facebook friends or whatever. It's like you're a humble and gentle offering of, Hey, everyone. I'm really this is work that I love doing. And I love doing it for these kinds of people in this kind of way. And I'm just wondering if, if, if this resonates, With you, I have some spots right now. And so it's, it's a gentle offering. It's very authentic. It's very real. And then the second message is simply it's, it's, it's that same offering, but you could, you could talk about a a case study, or you could talk about the story of how you became so passionate about this area. Or you can, you can talk about the reminder of, Oh, this thing is starting or whatever. So it's like two messages only. And it is and that that's the same two messages are sent. Everywhere you're on social media and sent to your email list. If you have one, and I find this Sarah, it's so, it's so interesting. I've been doing this gentle offering stuff for at least four years, [00:30:00] five years, probably actually, maybe longer than that too. Every time I launch something, it's two messages only. And I find that over time, my audience has leaned in more and more and more. Because whereas usually when someone else launches something, we have to, like, as an audience member, we have to, like, almost hold them off because it's so coming on so strong. So many emails, so many posts. And it's like, okay, all right. All right. I just, oh, yeah. Another thing about their launch. Whereas because of my gentle launch rhythm, my audience, I find I started to lean in more and often people go, Oh my gosh. And it's like, Oh, I missed that. Oh, that's okay. I'm going to have another offer in a month or two. And then they, they lean in and I find that now even one message. Now I can tell if it's going to be a successful launch or a medium launch or time to pivot. And it's so helpful for me because I, I do a single light launch and like, Oh yeah, this is going to do really well. The second message, like usually the first message brings [00:31:00] a lot of the sales and then the second message brings some of the sales too. But it's like once your audience is leaning in, they pay attention whenever you offer something and if it's right for them, they're going to buy much more quickly than. The usual launches where it's like, Oh my God, it's full of anxiety. And like, Oh my God, this is going to work out. And anyway, so 10 gentle launches. Sarah: I like that. Yeah. And I'm, I'm really personally listening and paying attention because I, I think that's something I'm wanting to shift as well. So just. I, I felt like my launches were gentle, but I do still feel like, because I actually just had feedback that, you know, there was too many emails and so it's like, yeah, I, I, I get it. We're all, you know, having too much. And even though, you know, even though the content is gentle, it's still, George: it's still the rhythm itself. And the funny thing about it is that. Not only can the rhythm be gentle for our audience, it's also gentle for [00:32:00] our, for our own systems because we're, because, you know, writing two messages as opposed to writing 10 later, which one is easier for us. And, and really, I really had, and you're lucky that I can tell you from my experience, because I had to like, it was, it was ironically, a lot of courage to only send two emails to only make two posts, like in the, in the early days. I'm like, I'm let's see what happens if I only do two of them, but it worked out so well over time. I'm like, I'm, I'm, I'm preaching this to the whole world. Like, please try this, but it, it, it takes a bit of patience because your audience needs to get used to it. Right. Like two or three launches later, they're like, Oh my God, I got to lean in now. Well, the thing Sarah: is, I only do three launches because I only have three programs. So would you say maybe then three George: emails? So. Yeah. I mean, of course, now let me be clear. Yes. When we have a larger program, it does [00:33:00] warrant more messages. I agree. Because like when I launched my year long program I send, well, we're going to talk deeper about this in the, in the workshop. I call it my circles of enrollment, meaning there's the inner circle that I send to, and there's the middle circle that I sent to, and then there's the outer circle. Each one has two messages. So it ends up being six. Yeah. For my, for my yearlong program, I can't wait to talk more, but yeah, we'll talk, we'll talk deeper, but, but what I want to just wrap up here with gentle launches is I do encourage everyone listening to consider. Experimenting with more offers, lighter offers, which again, we will dive to more deep, but let me, let me finish the one 11 formula. Okay. So there's two more elements. Okay. There's, there's, if, if you've been taking notes and counting the numbers, now we're down to 11 elements left, 11 components left. Okay. So out of these 11 components, there's just two, two pieces. There's two categories. There's six [00:34:00] joyful productivity practices integrated. Okay, so 6 joyful productivity practices integrated over the course of a year is certainly quite spacious, but it's also very rational. So for those who haven't heard

In today's episode, we delve into "Pivoting for Good". We discuss the impact of purpose-driven pivots, explore non-traditional success metrics, and offer practical steps for entrepreneurs considering meaningful changes. This conversation aims to inspire and guide solopreneurs towards more humane, ethical, and sustainable business practices. Join us as we uncover how pivoting can be a powerful force for good. In this conversation, we talked about: Her recent Pivoting Summit and what inspired her to share these experiences from pivoters‘Pivoting for Good’, a significant conversation among pivotersThe trend to wanting to measure success using non-traditional metrics that go beyond mere financial gainsPractical steps for entrepreneurs who are considering a pivotand much more... --- Intro with music NEW 2022: [00:00:00] Hello, Humane Marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non pushy. I'm Sarah Zanacroce, your hippie turned business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama bear of the humane marketing circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you're ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what Works and what doesn't work in business, then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way. We share with transparency and vulnerability, what works for us and what doesn't work. So that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane. marketing forward slash circle. And if you prefer one on one support from me, my humane business coaching could be just what you need. Whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea like writing a book, I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15 years business experience. experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my mama bear qualities as my one on one client. You can find out more at humane. marketing forward slash coaching. And finally, if you are a marketing impact pioneer and would like to bring humane marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website at humane. marketing. com. Dot marketing. Caroline intro: Hello, friends. Welcome back to another episode. Today's conversation fits under the P of pivoting. It's not an official P of the seven Ps of humane marketing. But that's the topic today. And I guess Pivoting is kind of a combination of all the seven P's of Humane Marketing. As always, if you're a regular here, you already know the seven P's of Humane Marketing. But if you're new, this is your first time [00:03:00] here, a big warm welcome. You can download your one page marketing plan with the seven piece of humane marketing at humane dot marketing forward slash one page. That's the number one and the word page. And this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different piece for your business. So it's not. Prescriptive, but it's reflective. So today I invited my colleague, Caroline Woods, to talk to us about pivots because she just recently hosted a summit slash event called the Pivot Narratives, where she featured many different pivotal stories from fellow entrepreneurs, including mine. So I thought I'd invite her for a conversation about pivoting for good. Caroline is an introvert who supports other introverts to redesign their businesses so that their business allows them to thrive, [00:04:00] rather than just survive. Ditching the idea that they have to pretend to be an extrovert to get ahead. Caroline is a corporate escapee, having spent 20 years working as a chartered accountant, working for large businesses and not for profits. She has wound her way around the world, working in Australia, her home country, the UK, Namibia, and Laos. In today's episode and conversation, we talked about her recent Pivoting Summit and what inspired her to share these experiences from Pivoters. The concept of pivoting for good, a significant conversation among the pivoters that participated the trend to wanting to measure success using non traditional metrics that go beyond mere financial gains, practical steps for entrepreneurs who are considering a pivot. And much more before we dive in, allow me one last plug for the Marketing Like We're [00:05:00] Human program that starts on March 14th and is actually a great fit for pivoters. Okay, I realized I said one last time already on the last episode. So sorry about the super last plug. So Marketing Like We're Human, aka The Client Resonator is my flagship program that I've been running since 2019. If you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you already know the seven P's of humane marketing, and that's exactly what we're working through in the program. So, passion, personal power, people, product, pricing, promotion and partnership. That's the framework that we follow. And besides in depth videos and workbooks, we also have a weekly call to deepen the content of these topics. Even though I say it's about the Marketing Foundation, I often have participants who are in Not new to business. So they are ready for a pivot. They might have been in business [00:06:00] already for a while and just kind of going through the motions or not feeling happy with their business anymore or just realizing it's not what they're meant to do. It's not their calling. And so oftentimes I have participants like that in the group. That want to create their life's work and from the ground up, do it right this time so that when they do go out and market, it comes from within. So that's what we do in the program. We go deep and we create the foundation once and for all so that you can find out which marketing activities will flow for you. It's part self development, part very pragmatic business best practices. It's part lift. Part right brain, part mind and heart. And if you go to humane. marketing forward slash program, there's a great number of testimonials and even whole case studies with videos from past participants. So go [00:07:00] and check out the details at humane. marketing forward slash program. And yes, we are starting on March 14th. 2024, so quickly get in touch with me so we can book a chat. You can either book a call directly on the program page or connect with me via LinkedIn or send me an email at sarah at humane dot marketing. I can't wait to hear from you. All right, let's dive into the conversation with Caroline about pivoting for good. video1858641342: Hi, Caroline. So good to see you again. We haven't seen each other for a long time, so it's good to hang out on Zoom and obviously then put it on the podcast and on YouTube. But for us, it's just the two of us, right? Which is fun. Good to have you. I'm happy to have a conversation with you again. Yeah, exactly. Wonderful. And it's always fun to see when talking to people on the other side, right? You're [00:08:00] in a t shirt and I'm in like my poncho. It's quite warm here tonight. Yeah. Good tell. Wonderful. So we, we decided to talk about pivoting for good because you just hosted a summit around pivoting where you were so kind to invite me and share my story of the pivot to humane marketing away from my LinkedIn consulting business and then to gentle marketing and then to humane marketing. And so as I was kind of reading through the other stories of Pivoters I was thinking, Hey, that actually makes a really good subject for a conversation on the podcast. And, you know, you make the perfect guest for it. So you are we go way back. Yeah, we go way back. We have had prior exchanges. Mainly related to being introverts and, and being [00:09:00] in business and, and marketing and all of that. So it's good to catch up with you. So let's go to that summit and maybe kind of lens of pivoting for good. What stands out to you now that the summit is over, do you feel like there was a bit of a theme related to. Pivoting for good and maybe I can define to listeners. What I mean by that. Yeah, it's kind of like coming from the traditional business model of like, just making money, paying the bills individualistic to a more. Out there a model, meaning like, it's not just me for my business, but I'm actually wanting to contribute to change. So that's what I think for this podcast we define as pivoting for good. So, did you notice kind of a theme in your summit from people's stories? It was definitely, I [00:10:00] think, a theme of pivoting for good. And there's some people like yourself who haven't really defined how they're going to, how they want to make the world a better place. You know, that sort of idea of improving things for the communities they're in. So I think there are a couple of people like that, like Louise, who's from Leap32 Marketing, very much wants to work with companies who have a purpose led. I think she's probably one of the most obvious ones. I think the other thing that really stood out for me is people pivoting, pivoting to pivot businesses that really reflected their values and so trying to show that their values coming through in their work and hopefully then influencing the world that they're sort of operating in to try and make, to try and ensure their values are actually being. Reflected in those communities that they're working with, I guess is how I would [00:11:00] put it. So not always having a really clearly defined, this is how I help my community. But very, almost all of them had a very clear, I want my values to be reflected in my work. And so through values, hopefully I can make the place, you know, just a little bit better than what, what it was like when I, you know, when they started in business. Yeah, that's interesting because that's kind of the, I did a video recently on the individual in the community, because that's kind of if you look at astrology, that's kind of the theme of the time of Aquarius where it's very, Much individualistic and saying, I want to do what I want to do and my values and all of that. Then it's also a time of, well, how do I, given how, who I am fit into the community. And it feels like. Maybe that's the first step you know, really expressing our values and not just being kind of defined, but [00:12:00] by our clients, because let's say 10 years ago, it was all about, you know, adapting to the clients, right? The client was the king and all that. And now it's like, well, what if, if I start with myself first and put my values first? So. It seems like there's a journey of saying, okay, I want to do a business how I want to do it. And then the next step will be like, well, how does that contribute to community at large to humanity at large? Yeah. Yeah. And I think the other thing that came through was sort of, it still ties into that individualistic idea, but then taking it further. is there are people who, you know, like myself, where I want to see introverts do well, but there are also quite a few people who took part who want to help other HSP people thrive. So very much seeing community in that sort of sense, that they want people in that particular [00:13:00] community of HSP to thrive. Or for me, you know, I've said introverts, so there's also that It's sort of individualistic because it's who you are and wanting others who are like you to thrive. But in a way also building community in those similar people, right? Yes. Yeah. And groups that don't do well or haven't, haven't been valued perhaps as much as society. Yeah. I'm thinking of. I'm thinking of neurodivergent people as well, that's kind of, you know, a new thing in the business world that there is movements of neurodivergent people. And so I think that's another, yeah, you're right. It's kind of like, okay, we finally can say how we're wired and who we are and let's find. Common who are, who are just like us and create communities with those people. Yeah. You're very right. Yeah. And I [00:14:00] think, I think helping them as well to be seen and valued by society. So thinking about those HSP people often have been HSP people, highly sensitive people have often been seen as too sensitive. And now perhaps we're seeing, hopefully starting to see their sensitivity as. Something that really adds to the world that we're in and so how do we help them get, you know, get themselves out into the world and share their, their sensitivity better. I think it's. It's an interesting, interesting idea of community. And I really believe that helps in this paradigm shift that kind of goes from a very, very masculine energy to a more feminine energy and HSPs kind of have this gift to bring out the feminine energy, right? So it belongs to that shift as well. Yeah. Maybe can you pick like one or two stories [00:15:00] that really. Stood out to you and that you would love to share here. I think probably two. So one of the ones I thought was really interesting is Nadia Finas, who went from being a business coach and she now helps people who are shy like herself and have a really, you know, she has a, quite a, her voice is quite high pitched, I guess you'd say, and I think, you know, she's in the past, she's really struggled with her voice and she struggled with shyness. And so I think that's been really interesting. It's a really interesting story for me of moving away from the online business world on business coaching, which I think she was getting very jaded about and then coming around this idea where she can help shy people instead and bringing a lot of her. You know, I can see with the work that she does online that she brings a lot of those skills that she got as a business coach [00:16:00] to then helping get her voice out about how shy people can be supported in the workplace. So I really liked her story, particularly I think you often see it going the other way of people moving from say a life coach to a business coach. And there's nothing wrong with that, but I think, yeah, that scene is a much more natural path going perhaps sort of in the other direction, I think was really interesting. Yeah. And then I really like Ruth Pound White's story that, you know, she's actually, she had a really successful copywriting business. And she gave that away to be a business coach and a soulful, you know, helping people with their, their sales and doing it in a soulful way. And I think that, again, is really interesting, I think, but for me, both of them, that whole giving up something that's earning you money, doing well, that society probably sees and values you doing, [00:17:00] moving into, you know, completely giving that up and doing something new. I think they're the two that. I think for me, it's the courage of giving up something successful to start again is really powerful. Yeah, yeah, it makes me laugh because I remember when I first put out the Marketing Like We're Human book and then was on these typical marketing podcasts and they would always ask me about Conversion rates. And, you know, does this actually work? Do we have proof that humane marketing works? And kind of my counter question is, was always like, well, the question is more like, does the traditional marketing still work for you? Can you still sleep at night? Right. Doing the things you're doing now. And so it's like, well, if you're, if it still works for you, then yeah. Why give it up? Right. But if you just know deep inside, well, this is actually not working for me anymore, then, then you need the courage to leave it behind and, and pivot to [00:18:00] something else. Yeah. I think that's really the thing about a pivot. Like, okay. Sometimes it might be a forced pivot. Which kind of was, you know, the story for me with the trademark issue moving away from gentle marketing. Okay. That was a forced pivot. I'm glad it happened now looking back. But then, yeah. So, so what would you say? Are, are, are there different reasons we just mentioned one or two, the forced one, and then the one where it's kind of like, well, something's not working for me. Is there another reason that you noticed why people are moving away from or pivoting to something else? Louise, who I mentioned before from Leap 32, I think she was probably, I think she's probably the only person in the whole project who pivoted because she thought there was more. [00:19:00] So I thought that was, hers was really interesting in that regard, in that it wasn't that she was particularly unhappy with in the role she was in, but she could see that there was more. And I think that's probably the other. The other reason is that they, you can see there are possibilities to get more out of your life and to get more out of your business. Yeah. And hopefully, and in her case, to give back more to community than what she was doing in her old job. Yeah. I think a lot of the others are forced. I mean, I would even say in some ways, You know, both of our pivots were forced in terms of feeling so uncomfortable with what we were doing. It was also almost our you know, when you stop doing your traditional marketing and I stopped doing Facebook ads, it was very much, you're almost forced because it doesn't feel right. Yeah. Because of ethical reasons, right? Yeah. Whereas some people are forced because, you know, [00:20:00] Celia, who shared her story, I mean, she probably could have kept going, but she had a co working space and obviously COVID hit and there was no co working. So it gave her an opportunity to really reassess what she was doing. So, you know, different types of force, I think. Mm hmm. Yeah. You mentioned about the, is there more this question I think for me in the LinkedIn, when I transitioned out of the LinkedIn consulting, I think that's what, what it was for me, like, is this all I'm ever going to do is, is it more? So it wasn't like more in terms of, can I make more money somewhere else? Yeah. It's like. In my life, is this my role or is there something else, something deeper? And I guess that's also what I'm hinting at towards, you know, the pivoting for good. I think a lot of people feel this calling right now for more. How can I [00:21:00] contribute to this shift right now? With my business, and isn't there a pivot that I should be making right now? So, yeah, I, I'd agree that it's probably those three is like, is there more? Another one is a forced pivot and, and the third one is more like, well, what can I let go of in something else? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that, that really resonates in terms of what I just said, you know, is there more? So. It's not usually money did it was that a common theme as well that most of the people didn't pivot because. You know, it's like, well, I want to make even more money. And that's the reason for the pivot. I guess the question is like, would people still measure success with just money or were people measuring success in another way? No, I don't think [00:22:00] anyone measured success through money or maybe one. Maybe Amber McHugh did. And hers was a forced pivot. So she had, she had a photography, Boudoir photography company, and again, COVID shut them down. And so they used that first year of the COVID to actually decide to really, really invest in their company and grow it significantly. After cover, but I think she was probably the only person who even, you know, thought, you know, had a money as a measure of her success for everyone else. It was much more about giving back to community or doing work that was more interesting to them. So that's all that individualistic side, but, you know, what. What work feels good to them to do. Right. And yeah, I think that would probably be the main two, actually, is that doing work [00:23:00] they enjoy and being able to give back were the two main measures of success that got mentioned in the project. Yeah. Kind of does in their piece as well. Right. It's just being happy in your, in your work rather than feeling like you're doing something that is not aligned. That's kind of the, yeah, the sense I got from most of the stories as well. And I think working with people who they were aligned with was another one. So having clients that are in alignment. Yeah, so I mean, I guess similar to you, finding people who do marketing, there's a few other people in the project that do marketing, and it was very much about finding ways of doing it ethically and working with people who want to do marketing in a way that Feels good, you know, isn't that that more aggressive masculine marketing that we see so often. So that definitely came through quite a [00:24:00] few people. Yeah. Another topic that comes to mind is because it's, it's 1 of my kind of like. Yeah, it's really important to me is the collaboration instead of competition. So, yeah, did you feel like there was also a bit of a pivot towards more, let's see how we can collaborate? As entrepreneurs, let's see how I can tap into, because most of these business owners, entrepreneurs already had existing experience. So was that a priority for people to pivot into kind of like, yeah, more community building or more collaboration with others? What, what did you see? No, I don't, I didn't actually see much of that, which was really interesting for me because. You know, over the past year as I've [00:25:00] been, you know, sort of wending my way through my own messy pivot, I think community and collaboration has really come up as a theme for me. Yeah. That's one of the reasons why I organized the Pivot Project, that I really, I like the, I love the idea of sharing a range of voices because I think we gain so much from hearing how different people are doing things and their thoughts on them, that it can help us to shape our own ideas. Cheers. Cheers. Around how we want to do our businesses, how we want to interact with the world, how we want to make it bigger and bigger and better, you know, bigger, not necessarily in a money sense, but bigger in terms of maybe bigger hearted but I don't it's really interesting. I don't think community came through. In the actual stories, you know, I certainly saw it as part of the pivot project that people really enjoyed that they, you know, I've had messages from people who took part that [00:26:00] one of the things that they've really got out of that is they've met some really fantastic new people who, you know, who that they were in the project with, and I, you know, that's been really exciting for me. So, Yeah. Yeah. Not so much in their own stories, but definitely as part of being in the project. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I, I know that, I only know that Andy Mort who was also featured, he has his own community and, and it's important to him and I do, I don't know if anybody else, yeah. Has that or it's important to them, but, but I'm curious about your own pivot. So, so tell us more about, you know, what's been going on for you, for you over the last year or so. I think for me, I've done a number of different things. I started off doing sort of Facebook ads and then [00:27:00] some tech VA work. And now really settling on, well, I wouldn't say settled. So the business strategy is definitely uses the best, it's the best use of my skills. I think bringing together my accounting, my planning skills, my problem solving. And then for me, I think over the past year, the real pivot has been around who I help. And I think for me, part of that has been, you know, I say I help introverts, but I've been realizing over the past year that that is. That's too big a group and that there are some other important things that fit into that group for me a big one. And probably because I've been spending too much time reading your stuff is ethical marketing. And that, you know, it's really important to me that the introverts I work with share that ethical marketing, humane marketing perspective. I don't want to work with people [00:28:00] who are only there for the money. And we all need money. I think money is wonderful, but there's something more to what they want to get from their business is part of that. And then certainly overthinking, I think, is another bit that I've struggled with. And I think that's where I also bring a set of skills into helping people who overthink with planning. But definitely the big one has been that ethical because I've seen, I've seen people who are introverts. But that doesn't necessarily mean they're ethical. I think it's really easy to, to label yourself. So I label myself as an introvert, and then they are, because I, I, you know, I want ethical marketing that all introverts are going to be into ethical marketing as well, which of course is completely not true. And I think it's getting that better sense of who I want to work with. And support that's been this really that last year, the pivot of the last year has been really trying to work out who that person is or who [00:29:00] those people are that I want to work with and support. Yeah, it's so interesting. I'm just thinking back to, yeah, my first podcast that was also, you know, interviewing introverts. And I think that's where you and I met for the first time. And it's true back then that was like a big thing. Oh my God, you're saying out loud that you're an introvert, right? And we thought, okay, all introverts think alike, and then, you know, obviously we noticed, oh, that's not true at all. And it really kind of confirms this, this idea that I say that to make your worldview, your niche, rather than just have a niche of introverts. Well, your worldview is, let's do things ethically. And then that. Becomes the niche within the introverts, right? So it's every introvert, but just the ones that align with your worldview. And I think it's an evolution, right? It's [00:30:00] just like, this is, this is becoming more and more important. And so it's, it's interesting to hear. And I noticed the same thing for me. I'm like, well, yeah, it used to be introverts. Definitely not true anymore, because I know a lot of introverts where I'm like. No, it's not, no, no resonance. And the reason is because we don't have the same worldview. It's really, I think for me, it's still introverts because I'm probably ambiverts. I think people who are really extroverted, I don't do as well with, you know, like my work style doesn't work as well with them. Sometimes I would never work with an extrovert, but yeah, I think my, my work, how I work. It's what attracts introverts, but it's the worldview that then drives the other bitch. So it's sort of bringing the, the, how I work with the, how I think together to make it a much more [00:31:00] aligned business for me. Right. I started to call my ideal clients, deep thinkers, because I feel like It doesn't matter whether they're introverted or extroverted, that's just how they recharge their battery. But if, if they are deep thinkers, thinking about things deeply, thinking about, you know, our current challenges. So not just thinking about themselves. That's to me is kind of the definition and, and oftentimes they are introverts, but not always. So, yeah, it's just, I've been thinking for me, the word I want to bring into my work. is that I really love is thoughtful because I really like the duality of the word that it's got that deep thinker part in it that they're thoughtful about their business and intentional. And I also really like the idea of thoughtful in terms of kindness and thinking about clients. So that's sort of, I think where I'm heading. Yeah. And I think that combines that. Can be an extrovert and be a deep [00:32:00] thinker. So, you know, probably does, I would work with extroverts who fit into that category, but then also that I do want to see a kinder world. And that's where the other part of that word comes from. I like that. Yeah. Very much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting how, how much power and resonance words have. Right. And obviously that's, that's a big thing in marketing and communication. Let's kind of wrap up and talk a little bit about, well, you know, if somebody is listening and they're like, Oh my God. Yeah. That's exactly what has been happening over the last year or so. Where would you say, where do you start? Where did you start? Because again, it can take a lot of courage to, you know, move into another direction or let something go that has been working well, or maybe it hasn't been working well, but it's the only thing you have. So [00:33:00] yeah. What were your first steps? And then a new direction. I think for me, I was, and I was the only one who talked about this on the project that for me, I just, I got so out of alignment with my business that I actually went back, went back to work and got a job. And so that I was financially secure. And for me, that's one of the most, I think that's one of the really important things in making a, I don't want to call it a courageous pivot, but in making a pivot that perhaps doesn't feel as accepted by family or whoever it is. You need to have that money piece. Yeah, sorted to be creative, like if you can't pay your bills, I think it's really difficult. You know, to tap, to be able to take that step, you know, if you're worried about money, then you're going to make unaligned decisions in the name of money. And I still do that today. I think I still take on clients that I, [00:34:00] I shouldn't because I think money still feeds into that. I'm getting better at saying no to people, but it's, yeah, so definitely for me it was money. And then really, I think my best advice is just to start journaling about what you wanted to actually look like. That it's amazing what happens when you start to get things down on paper, and then start to look for other people in that world. So, you know, for me, it was starting to find people like you, like Ruth Poundwhite, other people who are doing, you know, who have that world, similar worldview to I do, that I do, and looking at how they do their business and what they're sharing about their thoughts on how, how you can do business in a way that feels much better for you. And hopefully it's much better for your community. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad you brought up the money piece. I think that is, I think it's actually a very courageous pivot because there is so much stigma around, you know, business owners going back to work. And I think that is the, [00:35:00] yeah, the best. I mean, most courageous thing you can do because you're right, you can't, you can't even think if you don't have that financial safety. So, so don't start planning in that scarcity mode because it's not, it's not going to work. So yeah, I've actually seen quite, I've seen quite a few bigger business names sharing that they've gone and taken jobs. This. So either they've, you know, they've become a fractional marketing officer for someone that that kind of role and I really, I really like that they're sharing that and hopefully taking what I hadn't seen that, but that's really, yeah, that's really nice to hear because it's true that and I think especially, you know, the big businesses, they, I think there has been a huge kind of shift in terms of, you know, You know, what works and what doesn't work and it's especially the big businesses with also with big [00:36:00] expenses, right? Well, things are not working anymore. Like they used to before the pandemic. So yeah, so I'm really hoping that message gets out that actually. It's okay to take a job if that's what you need to do. Yeah. Yeah, in this season. And there'll be another season where you come up with a fabulous business that you love rather than trying to, trying to make something that doesn't support you succeed. I think that's, I think you might as well have a job in that case. If you're doing a business that doesn't light you up, then you might as well have a job. It's probably a lot easier. You can shut off at the, you know, the end of the day, hopefully. Yeah. It's the same thing that people who are wanting to start their first business. I always say, you know, build it while you still are on the job. So you have that financial security. Because otherwise it just, yeah, it really is scary. So, [00:37:00] and I think at the end of the marketing, like we're human book, I also mentioned that in terms of shifting to a different way of marketing. Because what happened for me, that was like a big drop, right? When you shift from the, the kind of the pushy marketing stuff and the pushy launches and all of that into a more humane approach to marketing. And right now I'm, you know, onboarding for the Marketing Like We're Human program, and I'm having conversations with people, right? So yeah, it takes a lot more time. And so there, there's going to be fewer people. So obviously there's a shift also in, in the income and you need to, you need to adjust for that. I mean, you can't just do it overnight. So, so kind of like. Yeah, maybe still keep doing what works well because of the money safety and then slowly shift out of it as you grow the other side. Yeah, and you can definitely, I think, you know, [00:38:00] with marketing, there's always an option to even just change it slightly. So you start to, you know, if you get rid of the particularly masculine element of your marketing, that particular aggressive. You can still do reasonably well while you're moving it to become more how you want it to be. Exactly, yeah, it's still a small shift, yeah. Yeah, but everything doesn't have to be a big, right, I'm not doing this anymore, I'm only doing this. There's definitely a gradual move that you can take if that's what's going to make you, going to be able to support you financially as you make the shift. Yeah, so good. Any, any other, I think the question is in terms of the future, where do you see the future of business, humane business? Do you feel like there is going to be more and more a move [00:39:00] towards this more aligned and, and ethical business? Do you see that in Australia, for example? I think I was but I think with the change in economic condition conditions that it's meant that people have right people feel less like it's a you said before it's a whole scarcity so because people are struggling to find clients. Your businesses are struggling. Things feel like they're scarce. That means that you, I think you tend to flip back into perhaps not so ethical marketing that has worked for you in the past. That, yeah, I think, I think the economic conditions might slow the movement down a little bit. That's for sure. Unfortunately, people will be less, less willing to take risks. Which, you know, you can completely understand. Yeah. Yeah. And it's [00:40:00] unfortunately always like that when things are back, well, people are scared and we, we go back to the