Here we are at our final episode for Season 3 of An Equine Conversation. The months & months of recording & editing have all finally finished & you now have the whole season to listen to & what an epic season it has been too.Stay tuned at the end of the conversation for some announcements.I’m delighted to bring you this final episode with the 4th inspirational women in the horse world I’ve had the pleasure of speaking with this season.This is yet another conversation I’ve been so looking forward to having and to sharing with you. Dr Dorothy Heffernan is based in Scotland, my favourite place in the world besides where I am in Victoria, Australia, but grew up in Ireland. I mention in the conversation, an Irish documentary that was on TV when I was a child about horses in Ireland and so I always wondered what it would have been like growing up horsie in Ireland. You’ll never believe it, but someone’s put that 53 minute and a bit documentary, which must have been made in the 1980’s or even 70’s onto YouTube. I almost fell off my chair when I thought to look and found it.I digress…Dorothy first came on my radar a number of years ago with her insightful responses to questions on some of the equine behaviour & positive reinforcement Facebook groups & it seemed Dorothy liked mine too & we connected over a like-minded approach.Since then I’ve been following Dorothy’s journey with both her training work with humans & horses in Scotland, and with her own little herd of horses. I knew Dorothy grew up in Ireland and I wanted to hear what that was like & I love Scotland so am always happy to speak with anyone there.I know some of you lovely listeners had really resonated with & appreciated hearing Julia Inglis story with her EMS horse and you wanted more information around EMS – a growing challenge for many horse owners. Dorothy has an EMS pony Rio – whose story I wanted to share with you as well, so we delve into the trials and tribulations of managing an EMS pony in Scotland.It was such a fun conversation with Dorothy who is a great story-teller. Even listening back to edit the episode, I laughed and I almost shed tears at different points. I hope you enjoy listening as much as Dorothy & I enjoyed recording this for you. Dorothy Heffernan:Dorothy Heffernan, PhD was born and raised in Dublin in the Republic of Ireland, where she was a horse and pony mad child. She moved to Scotland to study psychology and took her love of all things equid with her.After graduating with a PhD from the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow, she chose to specialize in equine behavior and has been working as an equine behavior consultant for 17 years, helping people solve behavior challenges with their horses, ponies, donkeys and mules. In 2021, she joined with three other force-free equid trainers to launch Positive Equine Training Scotland, offering support and training to people in Scotland who want to learn about new gentle and compassionate ways of working with their equid friends. Getting to meet and work with a variety of equids, big, small, long and short eared has been Dorothy’s dream all her life, and now she’s living that dream.As well as teaching and helping with equid behaviour issues, Dorothy supervises research projects for the University of Edinburgh courses in Equine Science and Animal Behaviour & Welfare. She has her own three lovely equid friends who take up either far too much (or not nearly enough) of her time, all trained using force free positive reinforcement methods. In this episode we discuss:1:24 - episode introduction4:15 - introducing Dr Dorothy Heffernan4:47 - Scotland: the Scottish summer, loving Scotland & accents/dilects14:09 - growing up horse-mad in the suburbs of Dublin16.29 - riding lessons in the middle of Dublin city18:36 - making the most of horsie extended family19.55 - eventually Dad bought the horse - perseverance pays off23:60 - enter Rio28.11 - enter Mal30.18 - enter Jackson25.41 - how studying & teaching in Psychology has informed a change in horse keeping & training43.56 - Rio’s EMS: the background52.10 - the laminitis diagnosis, the management & the recovery54.16 - round 256:52 - Rio’s current status: ditching the fat pads & ‘the knife edge’57.59 - Dorothy’s insights: forage/feed importance, what exercise does59:28 - a positively trained, EMS pony, the need for exercise & how that was managed1:00:53 - the positive ripple effects of the exercise training1:03:16 - Rio’s living set-up & management now - balancing behavioural & health needs1:05:38 - exercising ‘relatively hard’ - what is hard enough to have a positive impact1:06:52 - the broader impacts of exercise1:09:27 - the evolution in the herd dynamics as Rio’s EMS has been managed, his living conditions have been stable & his training has progressed1:10:37 - Rio & Mal’s earlier relationship & working to train that1:16:19 - top tips for managing an EMS pony1:23:57 - episode & season wrap-upLink from Dorothy:Find Dorothy via her Facebook profileOr at Dorothy’s website: Light Touch Equine Our links mentioned this episode:  Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on FacebookTell us what you thought about Season 3: CLICK HERE to share your thoughts via our short feedback form. Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: https://www.mbpod.com/

Let me invite you today, to come for a little journey into the wine cellar with me, which is kind of ironic, given I don’t drink alcohol, but hey, I can still appreciate the amazingness that is a wine cellar… so come on this little journey with me.Why are we going to the wine cellar? Well, for very, very good reason: Because, we have a tendency to start training our horses on the ground floor or somewhere above it, so, in the middle instead of at the beginning, instead of starting down in the gloriousness that is the wine cellar. I think we do this for a variety of very legitimate reasons, but it often leads us into a pickle in lots of ways with training our horses where we get ourselves stuck or facing problems. I hear some of you cry here, ‘but but but, I am not a horse trainer, I am an owner and I work with a trainer so this episode can’t be for me’… and I’m here to tell you that anyone who works with or cares for any animal, anywhere is a trainer – regardless of whether we’re conscious of it or not. So yep, if you care for a horse or any other animal, you are a trainer & this episode, this visit to the wine cellar is for you. As if you don’t want to go to the wine cellar anyway!?In today’s episode I’m going to speak to the training that comes before the training. Because that piece is inextricably connected to just how successful any training, which I say in inverted commas, is.So let’s head down the stairs into the cool of the wine cellar together and get started. In this episode we discuss:1:22 - episode introduction3:10 - we so often miss the (training) things that come before & start training somewhere in the middle instead of at the start (or in the wine cellar)5:37 - there’s a whole lot of training that doesn’t seem like ‘training’ but IS training and has a direct impact on our ‘training’7:37 - the things that come before the wine cellar - the ‘site preparation’8:46 - problems in training: symptoms versus causes9:58 - what’s falls into the category of training that doesn’t seem like training but is training, for you13:19 - setting up the classroom for student success14:19 - wine cellar foundations are not something most of us were taught16:49 - the role that peer pressure (direct or in-direct) plays19:34 - it’s not rocket science, but we mostly miss them and/or need permission to go there20:23 - an activity you can do that doesn’t seem like training but absolutely is training23:30 - another activity to think about how you’d approach in your circumstances25:54 - episode recap30.22 - episode wrap-up & what’s on next week Links mentioned this episode:  Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: https://www.mbpod.com/

From the age of about 10-11 years old, it was my dream to have my own children’s riding school. I started instructing at 16 and taught a lot of young people. Initially at riding schools & then at Pony Club where I often taught the youngest members, the more junior groups.In my mid-to-late 20’s, I’d had enough of teaching young people, of dealing with their parents and so I chose to focus on working with adults.I didn’t realise at that time, that part of the reason I’d had enough was because of the more conventional way I was having to teach people & that this just didn’t sit right with me. At that time, I didn’t know of or see another way. I wasn’t aware of alternative options.Fast forward to a few years ago, and my initial dream started to re-kindle in a fashion, with sparks, ignited by the work of people like the lovely Bex Tasker from Positively Together in NZ. I started to see a handful of people around the work, having learning adventures with young people that looked absolutely amazing.This, their approach, different from that conventional way, really got me & I started to have hope that my initial dream, could, in some way, happen in future. For now, this is something that’s still in my future, something I have bubbling along in the back of my mind, but now I have hope. I have hope for amazing alternatives for ways of working with young people and horses, and moreover, I’m so excited by what I’m seeing is possible to support young people learning about working with horses and other species in very cool ways that I wish were around when I was young.I couldn’t go past inviting Bex to come and have a chat with me here on An Equine Conversation, to share about her own learning journey and how she evolved her career to working with young people & animals, totally busting the myth that it’s something that we shouldn’t do. Bex does amazing work with young people as the learn about training animals and in turn, that’s giving them a bunch of personal development, teaching them invaluable life-skills on how they engage with their peers, families & humans around them. This includes learning about compassion, boundaries, choice & consent. Hugely important life-skills for us all.I find this work of Bex’s incredibly inspiring, as do others & Bex has more recently started to support other positive reinforcement focused coaches who work with and want to work with young people through her Shaping the Future membership.This is an episode for anyone who’s involved with young people, not just those in the animal training space. I hope you enjoy and find inspiration in this conversation. Bex Tasker:Bex and her family live on a small farm in beautiful Bay of Plenty, New Zealand. Under her business Positively Together, Bex teaches humans in NZ and around the world how to inspire behaviour change in their horses and dogs. Bex is a Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner and has been training with positive reinforcement for over 20 years, being best known for her long-standing passion and speciality in teaching humans about clicker training for horses. However, Positively Together also runs programmes in which youth experience the power of positive reinforcement and see learning and communication in action, as they work hands-on with friendly trained animals (currently there are sheep, horses, chickens, dogs, cows, pigs and rabbits!). The youth programs and multi-species focus have been growing rapidly since 2018 and have become a special passion for Bex and her team.Positively Together offers a "Junior Animal Trainers" programme, and “PupStars” classes for kids and their dogs. The flagship “Next Gen Trainers” membership for tweens and teens remains the heart project, with the monthly workshops and strong community providing a safe anchor for kids during the challenging teenage years. The focus for all the youth programs is on animal welfare and trainer skills, and the underlying values of compassion, consent, confidence, resilience and respect – for animals, and for humans.Over the years the videos of these kids classes posted on Positively Together social media pages have prompted enthusiastic enquiries from trainers around the world wanting advice on how to design and launch similar programs. Bex has guided many people through this process one-on-one, but as a firm believer that, as Dr Friedman says, “All of us are smarter than one of us”, a new idea was born. "Shaping the Future" was launched in early 2023. It is an online coaching collective and community where those of us who are passionate about teaching kids and animals can come together to share ideas and advice, gain support, get inspired, and ultimately get started with changing the world! If you have a special interest in this field, in any capacity, Bex and co would love you to join in! In this episode we discuss: 1:24 - episode introduction4:40 - introducing Bex Tasker7:30 - Bex’s horsie start & the realities of paying your own bills9:21 - reflections & learnings10:19 - dogs & the return of horses to the forefront of life11.39 - the disconnect that can exist in how we train dogs versus horses & how Bex started training with the same approach with both15:43 - the beginning of a career working with training animals19:44 - a challenging time & a change in career away from animal training, into Criminal & Fraud Intelligence20:09 - shifting back to training with humans & animals full time & the similarities this has with Intelligence work24:24 - starting out & forging a new path28:12 - the advantages to having minimal outside influences30:06 - building a new community/tribe32:55 - the irony of the isolation leading to dedication enabling creativity & a better training approach - which led to the creation of community to enable a better training approach for more people (so they don’t feel lonely or isolated) & finding your tribe34:54 - ‘good training is good training’, the importance of understanding how behaviour & learning works35:45 - the difference between true isolation & isolation among a group of others when you have different ideas & views, the need to at times create your own community38:22 - the importance of us being visible so people can see an alternative - ‘just doing what we do & being who we are is actually enough’41:43 - starting to work with young people in the animal training space - finding what makes your heart smile44:13 - a collaboration, creating ‘Mane Priority’ events including ‘Dream It, Be It’ - an animal careers expo to show young people & their parents options46:13 - mentoring teenagers & developing ‘Next Gen Trainers’ in collaboration with a Youth Worker friend47:15 - trying other things to see which worked best & finding what lights Bex up48:19 - evolving to add in more species, beyond horses (including the ‘wool puppies’)51:32 - the learning we can gain from working with multiple species & taking best-practice from outside of the horse world & cooperative care55:57 - developing young people into nimble trainers: the difference (or not) between training sheep and training horses & learning to adapt training to different species (humans included)59:49 - we humans are ‘training’ one another all the time, consciously or not & learning to do it well is a great thing - the world would be a better place with more compassion & kindness - bringing the influence we’re having on others to a more conscious level1:04:00 - animal training teaching young people critical thinking skills1:05:55 - importance of young people understanding choice & consent & how animal training supports this learning - respecting every species right to say ‘no’ & having your own boundaries1:11:17 - feedback on the program from students, parents & other observers1:17:15 - a run-through of Bex’s programs - both for the young & the young at heart (see links below for more information)1:22:33 - Bex’s top tips for you: have compassion, stay curious, just be you, follow your gut & look outside the horse-world for learning1:26:26 - resources that Bex likes right now1:30:23 - episode wrap-up, notes & what’s on next week Links from Bex:Website: www.clickertraining.co.nzVirtual communities and courses: www.positivelytogether.appFacebook: facebook.com/positive.reinforcement.trainingInstagram: instagram.com/positively_together Our links mentioned this episode:  Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: https://www.mbpod.com/

Today’s episode is a really short & snappy one, dare I say, a mini-sode.Despite being short, it’s an important one, where I’m sharing 2 valuable training tips that I’ve been talking about with my students for more than a decade: farts & unicorns. These are two training tips you can take away immediately and incorporate into your training.A short episode, but one I hope you find really helpful.  And now I best explain just what I mean by farts & unicorns. Listen to find out. In this episode I discuss:1:17 - episode introduction1:55 - brain farts2:14 - what are ‘brain farts’2:53 - why talk to students and you about this4:01 - what to do about it5:36 - unicorn moments6:02 - what are unicorn moments7:00 - why should we beware of them8:10 - what to do about it9:53 - episode summary10.16 - podcast wrap-up & what’s on next week Our links mentioned this episode:  Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: https://www.mbpod.com/

It was a few years back now when I first heard about Dr Michaela Hempen’s Masters Research on Crib-biting, which, for those uninitiated, is a stereotypic behaviour that horses can develop. I heard about the research and then had the good fortune to see some of the timeline film of the project thanks to Alexandra Kurland.There is not much now, after so long in the horse world that really captures my attention strongly, but wow, Michaela’s research blew my mind – it still does. I was captivated watching the footage, absolutely glued to the screen to see it all in as much detail as I could take in.I think the findings from Michaela’s work are absolutely game-changing in terms of how we view, understand and then manage crib-biting in horses. I am so moved by Michaela and the broader teams work in this space and the implications it has for the welfare of cribbing horses. I look forward to further research happening on crib-biting & other equine stereotypies.Since I heard about this research, anyone mentions crib-biting and I vomit excitement about Michaela’s research all over them… so I was itching to have Michaela come and speak with me to share this with you, our An Equine Conversation listeners so I could point people to this conversation instead of trying to explain the research and findings myself.There is so much to talk about & this is a long episode… but we still ran out of time & need to talk again. Dr Michaela Hempen:Dr Michaela Hempen has graduated in Veterinary Medicine with a PhD in Veterinary Public Health. She works at the European Food Safety Authority as a Scientific Officer in the area of biological hazards (bacteria, viruses, parasites) and animal welfare. She also has a Masters's degree in Equine Science. Her thesis was supervised by Dr Jesus Rosales Ruiz from North Texas University, that we’ll be discussing today. Michaela has been addicted to horses since early childhood. Her first horse Asfaloth is still with her and has since been joined by Graya and Blondie. Michaela’s training with horses has been most strongly influenced by: Horse trainer, author and podcaster Alexandra Kurland of The Clicker Centre,  Anja Beran, head of the internationally renowned ‘Gut Rosenhof’ training centre in Germany who uses classical dressage as physiotherapy for horses, andthe Feldenkrais method which has been integral to the improvement of Michaela’s riding and interaction with horses. These 3 things have been to a lesser extent, all part of my journey too, so I resonate with Michaela’s journey.  Michaela has been involved in organising, hosting and presenting at various clinics and workshops for and with Alexandra Kurland & also involving Dr Jesús Rosales-Ruiz, and Mary Hunter. In 2021 Michaela co-presented with Alexandra at Clicker Expo Live, and the year after, both Michaela and Alexandra hosted an online workshop that combined dressage and clicker training with Anja Beran as a special guest.Also, in 2022, Michaela taught students of a German certification programme for horse-assisted interventions. Michaela offers personalised online coaching for horse owners, which is based on learning from Alexandra Kurland & Anja Beran. You can find more information on Michaela’s Clicker Training Pferde website, Facebook page, YouTube and Instagram – links we will share with you in the show notes together with her science-related profiles for those interested. In this episode we discuss:1:30 - episode introduction3:20 - introducing Dr Michaela Hempen6:39 - Michaela’s early horsie life9:12 - enter ‘Asfaloth’10:00 - starting with classical dressage & a turning point in Michaela’s journey leading to clicker training & Alexandra Kurland11:57 - continuing with classical dressage & Anja Beran: discovering her work & just how beneficial it is for horses: ‘riding horses back to health’12:49 - the connection between Alexandra & Anja’s training13:28 - enter ‘Graya’14:15 - enter ‘Blondie’15:02 - Anja’s influence as part of my journey16:43 - Alexandra & Feldenkrais also part of my journey17:53 - What prompted Michaela’s Masters in Equine Science & research study in Crib-biting20:17 - What is crib-biting22:14 - What do we know about why crib-biting happens27:03 - a key piece to understand about crib-biting27:23 - what do we understand the physical effect to be on the horse & how do humans feel about it31:15 - what made Michaela passionate about crib-biting & why research32:54 - how do crib-biting ‘collars’ work36:37 - a further management intervention humans take38:28 - another impact that people dislike39:21 - why a single-subject study design47:13 - how did the research experiment begin: surveillance & data and what that revealed.51:37 - the living situation of the study horse(s)55:07 - narrowing in on Blondie - testing hypothesis of link to feeding & making an important discovery58:35 - further testing to narrow down what is the main influence1:02:04 - deciding on interventions & the main takeaway points from what’s been learnt already1:03:27 - a constructional approach, how this differs from a Veterinary approach & what Blondie needs to learn1:07:20 - changing the context & routine to create a training condition1:09:14 - the context/environmental change1:10:25 - being mindful of the human influence in the training condition & building the behaviour1:14:03 - describing what it looked like1:14:41 - teaching the focus on consumption & the importance of having experienced animal trainers involved in scientific experiments involving animals1:19:32 - how the training progresses over time - shifting to the 2nd part of the study, the routine described & maintaining the behaviour with environmental changes1:25:39 - the big spanner in the broder study works1:29:16 - further discoveries when broadening the experiment due to a changed condition1:30:38 - building a relationship beyond the cribbing project, the impact of Covid & prioritising welfare1:34:29 - a drastic change of environment & the impact on the cribbing behaviour1:40:45 - the desire for further research but the pressing need to write-up what’s been done already1:44:05 - the challenge of bringing two sciences together1:46:46 - Michaela’s top tips for those with a cribbing horse1:48:41 - cribbing during training with positive reinforcement (R+)/clicker training1:52:27 - podcast wrap-up & what’s on next week Links from Michaela:Website: Clicker Training PferdeFacebook: Clicker Training PferdeInstagram: Clicker Training PferdeYouTube channelLinkedInResearchGateDr Jesus Rosales Ruiz & Mary Hunter: Behavior Explorer‘Tactics of Scientific Research Evaluating Experimental Data in Psychology’ - Murray Sidman Our links mentioned this episode:  From Green to Growth: developing positive partnerships for the futureBook a discovery call for From Green to Growth (available when new intake dates are announced)Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm

Having young and or green horses is awesome. But also, it can be confusing and overwhelming. We hear conflicting information on young horses – that we shouldn’t start them under saddle too early because their bodies need to develop. But then we also hear that they need a job to do and we often see that in the busy, exploratory behaviour we see from them. For many people it’s a rock and a hard place and we too often end up with young horses started under saddle too soon because they need a job to do.There are absolutely other things we can do with young horses to give their busy minds and bodies things to do that will be beneficial now and into the future.-----------I have been super interested in working with young horses since I was a teenager at riding school… so we’re talking for maybe the last 30 years. In this episode I chat about why I’m so passionate about working with young and/or green horses. So passionate that our first Abbey’s Run Equestrian program, From Green to Growth is targeted for that cohort of horses and their owners. In this episode we discuss:1:31 - episode introduction2:32 - where my interest in working with young horses comes from & my journey3:47 - the highs and lows of breeding6:19 - how special working with youngsters is5:56 - it can go wrong7:58 - our current youngsters & where they’re at10:50 - advocating for students starting with youngsters11:27 - never assume with any new horse of any age or ‘experience’ level - treat all as blank slates12:55 - there are lovely mature horses out there, there are always many shades of bay ;-)13:47 - ‘From Green to Growth: developing positive partnerships for the future’ was a natural progression14:29 - participant feedback14:54 - next intake & all about the program19:24 - podcast wrap-up & what’s on next episode Our links mentioned this episode:  From Green to Growth: developing positive partnerships for the futureBook a discovery call for From Green to Growth (available when new intake dates are announced)Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm

I am ridiculously excited to have Hannah Branigan as our guest on An Equine Conversation this episode.If you don’t know Hannah’s work, you should make a point of getting to know it. Hannah’s education programs and content in the animal training space with a focus on dogs is next level excellent. Her podcast, Drinking from the Toilet that I’ve mentioned a couple of times in the past on An Equine Conversation and have recommended to many people, is one of my favourites for insightful training information, looking at all the shades of grey in the training space and the best part is that it’s presented in a really authentic way. While Drinking from the Toilet has a dog focus, so much of the conversation directly relates to training horses & other species.For a while now, I’ve wanted to do an episode on An Equine Conversation about the differences & similarities between training dogs and horses. I know the vast majority of horse people also have dogs. And I see regularly a really fascinating thing happen where people will train their dog with positive reinforcement, yet they don’t apply the same training approach with their horses. There seems to be a long-held belief in a large part of the horse-world that we can’t train horses with positive reinforcement, we can’t train them using food. That using food would be bribing them, will make them muggy, yet we’re often comfortable to train our dogs using food. FYI This isn’t the case – we can train horses using positive reinforcement and it’s super effective & people around the world are doing it with awesome success.I wanted to unpack the differences but also the similarities between training dogs and horses. I’m a huge fan of Hannah’s and I know that Hannah is not only amazingly awesome in her work with dogs, she also has horses. I reckoned Hannah might be the perfect person to unpack this conversation with me.I was beyond delighted when Hannah agreed to come and chat with us & I managed to restrain myself from fan-girling at her too much. We had a super interesting conversation where Hannah shared some of her lesser known story with horses.It won’t surprise anyone who knows Hannah’s work to know that we got into some training weeds and a more in-depth but totally awesome conversation than maybe I had planned. ….  A conversation which I’m so excited to share with you. Enjoy! PS. We did have some technical issues with this recording. Thanks to Hannah for bearing with as we worked through them at the time and thanks to Matthew Bliss for working as much magic as possible to improve the sound quality. Hannah Branigan:Hannah Branigan, the author of Awesome Obedience, is a self-proclaimed training nerd. With the belief that everyone (dogs and humans alike) learn best in an environment free of criticism, Hannah breaks down complex skills into bite-sized, accessible pieces, and develops practical techniques that leave her students with a sense of achievement and success.She is on a mission to make training fun and enjoyable for dogs and their handlers, which means optimizing positive reinforcement techniques across species. She is fascinated by behavior and learning, and passionate about bringing innovative, science-based solutions to the dog/human learning space.Hannah has a background in both human sports and biology. Now she applies that knowledge and experience to the world of animal training and canine competitive sports. She enjoys training and competing with her own dogs in a variety of sports. Her competition obedience DVDs, Obedience FUNdamentals and Beyond FUNdamentals, have received rave reviews from trainers all over the world, and her students have earned advanced titles and in multiple countries.Hannah is the host of the popular dog training podcast, Drinking from the Toilet, which focuses on the (often inconvenient) intersection between positive reinforcement philosophy and reality. Her mentorship program, Zero to CD, gives trainers a complete, step-by-step blueprint for earning their first level obedience title with curated support along the way. In this episode we discuss:1:31 - episode introduction4:32 - introducing Hannah Branigan6:20 - Hannah’s background with horses10:28 - where did the dogs come into the story14:32 - shifting career trajectory15:16 - the current animal family15:45 - the weird thing that is dog-owners seeming to know how to train by osmosis16:46 - the dog chicken and horse egg - which comes first17:51 - how we categorise horses through a different lens to dogs19:41 - the biggest difference between the two species24:02 - other differences: the rhythm of movement horses need versus dogs26:51 - re-setting a dog in training versus a horse & different work arounds30:02 - different ethology in how dogs & horses consume food (and humans too) & implications for training36:42 - impact of the environment on our animals & our training44:06 - switching from training horses with more conventional, pressure/release methods to R+53:13 - onto the similarities between training dogs & horses using R+: the left and the right-hand sides54:50 - discomfort of humans around working with reinforcers, the importance of training reinforcement procedures & predictability & certainty, and impact of balance on how we feed1:02:46 - things taught the same way1:09:35 - horses occupying a unique niche in the human mind & the impact of equestrian art on what we perceive as beautiful1:13:32 - dogs & horses as inhibited species - process of domestication impacts1:16:13 - top training tips: reinforcement drives behaviour so train reinforcement behaviours first & foremost1:17:43 - next top tip: don’t think too hard on the ‘mistakes’ - get to reinforceable moments ASAP1:19:17 - the little things: example of impact of reinforcement delivery1:22:00 - the basement behaviours even before the reinforcement delivery & the impact of early learning history1:24:43 - what’s coming up at Abbey’s Run Equestrian1:27:14 - podcast wrap-up & what’s on next episode Links from Hannah:Hannah's online program, Zero to CDDrinking from the ToiletHannah's book: Awesome ObedienceAnd also: Awesome Obedience: The Field Guide Our links mentioned this episode:  From Green to Growth: developing positive partnerships for the futureBook a discovery call for From Green to Growth (available when new intake dates are announced)Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm

This episode of An Equine Conversation is quite a different one:In late 2015, Benn & I moved to the country, from the outer suburbs of Melbourne. Yep, we did eat a lot of peaches initially (we knew people with a prolifically producing tree), and have since planted 2 peach trees of our own LOL. For me, moving to the country had been a dream since I can remember (I can’t remember a time I didn’t want my own ‘farm’) and for Benn who grew up on a hobby-farm but then moved into town for study & work, returning to a more rural lifestyle was something he always intended to do. Here we are, almost 8 years on (sometimes it feels like 5 minutes, other times, forever) & while it’s an awful lot of work, for the most part, we absolutely love it.Inspired by our friend and Podcast Producer Matthew Bliss & his wife Bernadine & their podcast ‘From My Home To Yours’, Benn (who had volunteered to come on a podcast episode) and I thought we’d take a moment to reflect on our experience of moving from one type of lifestyle to another. Something we haven’t really stopped to do like this since we moved almost 8 years ago now. It was an awesome opportunity to reflect on some of the challenges, some of the awesomeness & some of the differences we found in moving to the country, to live on our 40 acres. We thought you might enjoy listening in and sharing on our revisiting some of the most memorable changes. Benn Sheffield:Logistics and tech extraordinaire, things would grind to a stand-still at Abbey’s Run if it wasn’t for Benn and his breadth of skills. From fencing to fixing the tractor, tech support to website updates and video editing, Benn forms a vital part of the Abbey’s Run Team.Benn grew up on a hobby farm in the Yarra Valley when the Valley was a quieter place than it is now - focused on sheep & cattle farming before becoming more trendy with the growth in the winery industry. Life on a hobby farm was in many ways idyllic: growing up with dogs around & regularly having orphan lambs or calves to raise and have around the place. Benn moved into town to study and while starting his career in the environmental field.Benn was not horsie growing up & is one of those partners who is horsie by default now. He and Sarah found and moved to Abbey’s Run almost 8 years ago - getting Benn back out of town and into a country lifestyle, something he’d always felt he would do. In this episode we discuss:1:29 - episode introduction3:42 - introducing Benn4:18 - why move to the country6:53 - what we were looking for & the process of finding our property19:56 - some of the challenges we encountered when we first moved here46:52 - some of the awesomeness we encountered when we first moved here1:11:41 - differences we discovered in the local community culture1:20:30 - differences in costs1:25:05 - in summary1:28:15 - podcast wrap-up & sneak-peek into what’s on next week Our links mentioned this episode:  Reliable Recall Challenge (for horse & pony owners)From Green to Growth: developing positive partnerships for the futureBook a discovery call for From Green to Growth (available when new intake dates are announced)Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm

Hello lovely listener!We are delighted to be back with Season 3 of An Equine Conversation, a podcast brought to you by Abbey’s Run Equestrian. I’m your host, Sarah Nickels.Just like the previous Seasons, Season 3 includes 8 episodes (plus this trailer). Episodes will drop on a Wednesday morning, Melbourne/Sydney time. We’re dropping our first episode next Wednesday, October 4th.Check out this trailer for a glimpse of what’s coming up this Season & to find out about the free challenge we have starting next week (October 5th) and our next intake of our young and/or green horse program, From Green to Growth: developing positive partnerships for the future. Our links mentioned this trailer:  Reliable Recall Challenge (for horse & pony owners)From Green to Growth: developing positive partnerships for the futureBook a discovery call for From Green to Growth (available when new intake dates are announced)Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm

I’m delighted to welcome our good friend, Julia Inglis back to An Equine Conversation. We first met Julia in Series 1, Episode 8 ‘Julia’s story - a tale to learn from’. If you want to hear Julia’s story, you can jump back and listen to that episode.Julia & I talk so much about training, so we thought we’d start to share some of these conversations with you.In this episode, we start by catching up on how Julia’s horse Maddy, who has Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS) went over last Spring and Summer. Then, we get into the weeds of talking about the challenges of the English langauge, particularly the use of labels, in the horse world…. but because this is Julia and I, we quickly end up down various rabbit holes due to what we’d both been seeing in the months before we spoke, including talking about what you do when you remove labels, the challenge of addressing the actual problem when that impacts your plans and what the movie ‘Frozen’ has to do with horses and training. Julia Inglis:Julia grew up in the UK and was animal mad from a young age, catching her first pet when a rabbit wandered into her garden. She learned to ride at school but stopped for many years when she went to university in Glasgow before moving to London for further studies. Julia completed her PhD in neuropharmacology in 2004 and went on to establish a research career in the area of pain mechanisms in arthritis.After completing her studies Julia started riding again at a local riding school, and around this time she met her now husband at a conference. He lived in Perth, Australia and in a bid to persuade her to move there started sending adverts for horse properties and horses. Within months Julia moved to Australia and they bought their first horse, which soon became 2 then 3, and is now a small farm full of animals.Julia rode traditionally for close to a decade, bush riding and dressage but when her horse refused to move under saddle ended up learning about alternative ways to train and positive reinforcement. This has now become her passion and obsession as it combines science and training geekery with animals - her two great loves. In this episode we discuss:1:39 - episode introduction3:08 - an update on Maddy over last Spring & Summer (Julia’s horse with EMS)12:26 - how we use language, labels & why they're problematic but also useful26:35 - what you do when you unravel the label & then have to do something about what’s going on38:04 - back to labels - 'boring'41:21 - so what even is a 'bombproof' horse or pony & what the kids film ‘Frozen’ has to do with ‘bombproof’ horses53:11 - where to now - body language again & building a common language & labels as short-hand59:08 - summary & the need for a new shared language / labels in the horse world1:02:33 - the influence of history & present art on what we label 'beautiful' & see as desirable1:06:06 - top tips & then some1:13:14 - important end-of-season announcements  Link from Julia:While not mentioned in the podcast, Julia has requested we share the link for the Western Australia (WA) Equine Clicker Trainer group so that those in WA who are interested can join and share. Our links mentioned this episode:  Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm

*Please note: this episode does contain profanity* I first encountered Canadian-based Erin Moore when a friend pointed me to a podcast episode Erin had done last year on running a successful dog training business and I immediately resonated with Erin’s work. I loved what Erin was all about & since that time have been working with Erin on my business, Abbey’s Run Equestrian.Cut to earlier this year & Erin was on the ‘Drinking from the Toilet’ podcast, which is a fabulous podcast about all things dog training that I highly recommend. It’s one of my favourite podcasts to listen to, with much of the content translating very directly to horses. On that episode, Erin was talking about advocating for your dog and it really struck me that this is content horsie folk needed to hear too. I know it’s something I could personally always get better at and in the past I’ve supported quite a number of my students in some of their advocacy options for their horses.We can often think about advocacy as being confrontational, but it doesn’t have to be that. Sure, it is sometimes, but there are many other non-confrontational ways we can advocate for our loved horses and other equines too. Erin Moore:Erin Moore was a dog trainer for 13 years, and, by her own admission, made every mistake a dog training business owner could make. After burning out and leaving the industry completely, Erin knew that if she wanted to come back to it, she would need to figure out a different way to do things. So Erin did just that. She hired a coach and learned all about the business end of things, and that changed her entire business and her life. Now Erin coaches trainers on how to set up their businesses so that they can actually have a life and not burn out like she did! In this episode we discuss:1:28 - profanity warning1:53 - introduction to this episode topic & to Erin Moore3:59 - Erin’s horsie past, career with dogs & what Erin does now9:06 - what does advocating for our equine mean & advocating ‘quietly’11:05 - a lived example from Abbey’s Run where advocacy in the moment was difficult (even with all my experience)14:10 - the challenge in the moment, the impact of our history & what feeling shame does15:55 - when it’s a ‘professional’, authority figure & gender dynamics & taking that all into account19:17 - knowing how to research a trainer is not something most people know how to do20:26 - the advocacy that is not working with someone that makes you feel bad & that doing things after the event is advocacy22:34 - when an expert provides advice on something they’re not qualified or experienced to provide advice on, discerning what’s good information & what’s not - learning about that as advocacy25:22 - avoiding a situation as advocacy - giving ourselves permission29:48 - modelling & so normalising advocacy32:06 - advocacy when it comes to competitions, particularly team events - which hard do you want37:11 - an advocacy example from the past & being able to pivot39:56 - training as advocacy & cooperative care in the horse world43:57 - the wild that is that we see horses so differently to other species for cooperative care & where’s the horse world at with cooperative care - the impact of history46:25 - keeping our practitioners safer, saving them time & keeping ourselves & our horses safer47:11 - what even is cooperative care50:01 - us doing our own therapy is part of advocating for our animals51:07 - why should we advocate for our animals52:37 - what you can do after this episode to better advocate for your equine57:28 - building the skills to advocate our animals helps us advocate better for ourselves & focusing on little steps to build the big picture1:00:32 - having other people support you in the advocacy where it’s difficult to have your own voice - planning with them ahead of time1:06:29 - recognising the systemic issues that make it harder for certain groups of people to advocate1:08:56 - advocating can be done many ways & we can develop our advocacy skills, thinking differently about advocacy opens up options1:10:08 - quiet advocacy & making choices1:11:30 - where to find more from Erin & a reminder that Erin is a business coach, not an equine instructor1:14:28 - coming up next week Link from Erin:Free, thought-provoking resources on Erin’s website  Our links mentioned this episode:  Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm

We want your training with your horse to be fun & enjoyable for your both – in short, we want you to be really successful in your training.When we think about training with our horses & being successful with our training, we often think about the time when we're actively training 1:1 with our horse... but there is a whole bunch of stuff that comes before the active training part that is inextricably connected to how successful any active training will be or not.Some of the things that come before take some time to put in place & others can be done more rapidly. The very cool thing too, is that the more we get in place and the more practiced we get at setting ourselves and our horses up for success, the faster it becomes over time. So while initially, it might take some conscious, focused thought and actions – it will become easier over time.Setting ourselves up for success is something we will be exploring in greater detail with you awesome humans who get involved in our virtual young & green horse program that launches on the 1st of August 2023… but setting ourselves & our horses up for success is so important & we wanted to touch on it here, through An Equine Conversation too.There is so much we could talk about on how we set ourselves and our horses up for success but today we’re going to follow on from something we mentioned super briefly in Series 2, Episode 3 of An Equine Conversation with Dr Lisa Walter – that it takes a team. In this episode we discuss:1:29 - episode introduction3:01 - recap on the importance of ruling out pain for training success5:10 - the team: who’s on it, ever-evolving & differences in support9:16 - a closer look at the training impact of saddle fitting14:38 - a closer look at the training impact of dental stuffs18:29 - episode wrap-up21:42 - what’s coming up next episode Links mentioned this episode:  Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on FacebookHorses and People - The 2020 Five Domains Model for Welfare AssessmentEquiculture - The 3 F’s. Why they are important to your horse Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm

In early 2022, I started to become a more ardent feminist as I became increasingly exposed to staggering statistics and information around the gender inequality still facing women. This isn’t to say I was ignorant or not a feminist beforehand; it’s more that my focus has become even sharper the more I’ve been exposed to. I’m very grateful to the friends who introduced me to some excellent resources including: Annabel Crabb’s book ‘The Wife Drought’, ‘The Guilty Feminist’ podcast and book by Debra Frances-White, and the book ‘Rage Becomes her’ by Soraya Chemaly. This has coincided with my work with Erin Moore, a business coach who works with women, primarily dog trainers – and really addresses the mindset piece: unpacking the challenges women face in business and just where those challenges are coming from (which has been incredibly revealing as to why we women face some of the challenges we do in business, in the workforce and in life generally). It’s been an eye-opening time and I’m very thankful to have had this revelation about just how much I was accepting unquestioningly as a result of my own learning history & societal conditioning. I’ve no doubt my learning & understand has a long way to go still.This exposure of mine has led to this podcast episode & this being something I believe we need to talk about & get the conversation happening around more widely. Menstruation is something that almost all women experience. That is something like half the population of the world. Half. It is impactful but is something that has been quite taboo in many places & caused many women a great deal of anxiety, not to mention regular & debilitating pain in some cases.Late last year I started to see various sporting codes starting to speak out around the impact of menstruation on women’s participation in sport with various pieces of research showing some very impactful results. One study in the UK showed that 42% of 14 – 16 year olds said their period stops them taking part in physical activity at school.As a result, some groups around the world started to review their uniform or dress code for female players, where the historic uniform was white.In November 2022, Wimbledon announced a historic change in their uniform rules after current and former players expressed the stress of having to wear all-white while having their period. Some female players had expressed they were using the contraceptive pill to change their menstruating cycle to make sure they didn’t have their period while playing at Wimbledon. The change now means women can wear coloured undershorts, with the Chief Executive of the All England Club expressing that the hope is that the new rule will help players focus purely on their performance by relieving a potential source of anxiety.In December 2022, the Australian Football League, AFL, Womens division announced a historic uniform policy change with players no longer having to wear white shorts when playing in away games. With the decision, designed to reduce player anxiety around menstruation, coming after extensive consultation with clubs and players and research that found discomfort in uniforms to be a significant barrier for girls and women in pursuing sport at all levels.In early 2023, women’s soccer teams in the UK and Ireland also started to move away from wearing white shorts for the same reasons as the AFL, with the England Women’s Football team new shorts even having leak protection built into them.As a woman, the stress and anxiety that comes with having a period is not lost on me. For a very long time, women have had to suck it up & deal with it quietly. I’m no exception to that. I’ve been like these players & worried about leaking & if anyone is seeing it. I’ve been in the horse world for a long time and have had to contend with bathrooms at clubs with no sanitary disposal bins; had to jam sanitary products down my breeches because they don’t always have pockets & even if they did, being skin tight, it’s pretty evident when we have things in them; had to contend with no hot water at hand basins to wash with; worn jumpers tied around my waist just in case of leakage, and been concerned of anyone noticing. And that’s just the equine world. In my office job, I’ve actively worn dark coloured pants when menstruating, worn jumpers around my waist and even surreptitiously checked any chair I’ve sat on to make sure I didn’t leak onto it. I’m quite sure that you will have had your own experiences and ways of dealing with this yourself.Half of the population have been having to contend with this type of thing for a really long time. Half. While the other, approximate half, have often been unaware that this is all going on for us (certainly this episode triggered some great discussions at home for us with Benn realising just how much stuff we women are contending with that he wasn’t acutely aware of).While players in sporting activities have expressed anxiety over participation, and a concern around not being able to focus on being the best player they can be due to stress around their period – the way this translates to us working with horses is frankly terrifying, with the enormous risks that come with not being able to focus on the living, breathing, thinking animal you are beside or on top of.So how do we empower those of us working with horses to be able to be present in the moment and focused on their horse instead of worrying if anyone is noticing if they have their period?I was absolutely delighted when I saw in October 2022 that Pony Club Australia had partnered with researchers at the University of Newcastle and University of Western Australia to research the impact menstruation was having on Pony Club members and their participation. I wanted to know more about this research project and it’s outcomes, and moreover, I wanted to highlight this conversation, to raise it’s profile, to help normalise us talking about this, and so I invited Dr Catherine Ainsworth and Dr Kirrily Thompson to join us on An Equine Conversation. We also invited the Chief Instructor & Vice President of Yandina and District Pony Club in Queensland, Tarryn Jenkins, to give us the low-down on what’s happened at her club as a result of the research.  I am so very excited and frankly proud, to bring you this episode. I hope it helps you both personally as individuals and to have conversations around the impact of menstruation on us women & things we can do to reduce related stress & improve participation, with your connections in the equine world and beyond. Dr Catherine Ainsworth:Dr Catherine Ainsworth has undergraduate and postgraduate degrees in Veterinary Science. Her postgraduate study was in equine reproduction which led to many years in equine stud practice. With an interest in a corporate career, Catherine worked in the veterinary pharmaceutical industry in marketing and technical support roles and then agribusiness, whilst completing a MBA part time at the Melbourne Business School (University of Melbourne). Catherine went on to be the director of the Victorian state veterinary laboratory for 10 years, managing animal health diagnostics and research from 1999 – 2010. She then led the development of the new agricultural science centre in Victoria and investment programs in animal and plant biosecurity and biotechnology for 5 years. Catherine is a Graduate of the Australian Institute of Company Directors and the AICD Mastering the Boardroom program. Catherine has been CEO of Pony Club Australia since 2016 and has led the organisation through major initiatives with a sharp focus on connecting with and delivering benefits to club members.Catherine is also the:• Deputy Chair of Harness Racing Victoria and Chair of the Integrity Committee,• Deputy Chair of Royal Agricultural Society of Victoria,• Director of Racing Analytical Services, and• Member of the Victorian Animal Welfare Advisory Council.Like quite a number of us, Catherine comes from a non-horsey family and joined Narrandera Pony Club in NSW only after she could convince her father she could look after her horse herself. Dr Kirrilly ThompsonDr Kirrilly Thompson is a cultural anthropologist who has been researching and writing about human-horse relations for two decades.In 2018 she published a book called ‘(Un)stable relations: Horses, humans and social agency’ co-authored with Professor Lynda Birke. She and Linda argue for the need to consider horses as active agents in their relationships with humans.In addition to her research on horse welfare, Kirrilly has explored risk perception and safety behaviours of equestrians in contexts ranging from bullfighting from horseback in Spain, through showjumping in the United Kingdom and eventing in Australia.She is currently a One Health research fellow at the University of Newcastle working in the Hunter New England Local Health District in a position funded by NSW Health on health protection, with a particular focus on the prevention of zoonotic diseases – diseases that spread from horses to humans such as ringworm, psittacosis and Hendra virus.Kirrilly worked for Pony Club Australia for two years as the National Participation and Development Manager. She started her own life with horses at Pegasus Pony Club in South Australia and competes in dressage with her horse Mouse. Kirrilly is passionate about making horse-riding more enjoyable for horses and humans alike. In this episode we discuss:1:27 - introduction to today’s episode topic8:23 - who are Dr Catherine Ainsworth & Dr Kirrilly Thompson11:27 - what is Pony Club Australia & who’s involved?14:06 - where did the study come from? Recognising periods as a barrier to participation & starting to consider the study focus area - the social taboo & the process of getting the survey ready18:38 - why white or other light coloured jodhurs - where the history of light coloured pants for riding has come from?21:38 - how was the proposed study received by the CEO of PCA? the need for evidence to build a case for change & elevating the voice of those impacted23:25 - why 10 - 17 year olds? Getting the survey out there & the 2 broad types of responses (the good & the not so good)29:18 - the type of questions asked, the broad responses participants contributed & the start of the statistics from the study32:10 - guidelines/stipulations on provision of facilities & uniform - the impact of the study timing on the introduction of new National Rules for uniforms & gear33:06 - more on the participation & feedback - the older age group wanted to be heard34:47 - what change has happened for PCA as a result of the survey - the shift in National, jodhpur uniform guidelines36:02 - survey responses around darker colour jodhpurs, the need for rule change AND cultural change (and what those cultural changes could be for clubs)37:40 - club responses when the survey results were released, the priorities of PCA that guide decision-making: safety & welfare, the potential for pink polka dot jodhpurs & other options40:10 - the un-related positives for wearing darker colour jodhpurs - ease of cleaning, body image, etc & the stories of the labour people have gone to, to maintain light-colours jodhpurs43:31 - possible implications for people not joining Pony Club because of period impacts, or those that come once and don’t come back & research raising more questions44:47 - some riders have support, but not all have support around them when attending Pony Club & the implications for managing period impacts45:50 - More of the survey statistics: hot running water, sanitary disposal bins, the layout of clubs & difficulty of going to the toilet discreetly48:05 - the many & varied implications for coaches - toilet breaks, riders not using a forward seat or pulling horses off jumps50:35 - the huge safety implications of distraction/anxiety & not riding well due to concerns & the survey highlighting unexpected ie, important points around coaches needing to allow students ample time to visit the toilet, and the limitations of qualifying events for Regional riders53:45 - coaches needing to put themselves in the shoes of the diverse groups they teach & PCA’s evolution to better support the diverse participants57:08 - further research to explore, participation for confidence - the gateway to a social circle & social life & PCA Awards to reward non-competitive achievements1:02:00 - hearing from Yandina & District Pony Club & the changes implemented as a result of the research & findings1:09:47 - the reach of the study, how change can seem difficult but we’ve seen it to be possible, how quickly things can change & the importance of modelling behaviour1:12:58 - the community as moderators for this work1:14:08 - the statistics on: the impact on participation in rallies & competitions, the level of worry when wearing light-coloured jodhpurs and what the take-up in wearing dark-coloured jodhpurs would be1:16:49 - would we lose anything by not wearing light-coloured riding pants & other ways to express respect1:21:40 - a huge thanks to those who participated in the survey & the other researchers involved1:23:33 - what’s coming up next episode  Links from Catherine & Kirrilly:Pony Club Australia - Media Release 19/10/22 - Pony Club Australia listens to young members about the impact of periods on participationPony Club AustraliaPony Club Australia Facebook pageYandina & District Pony ClubHorses and People: ‘Dressed for the Ride: The history of rider wear’ Our links mentioned this episode:  Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm

In my almost 3 decades of teaching people with horses, there are some things I have been asked about many times. Questions around or support in buying a new horse has been one of these.Horse shopping, much like property shopping, can be an emotional roller-coaster of an experience. Then when you finally land on which equine and have your new partner home, things may not go, in fact often they don’t go, quite as you imagined they would.In this episode I’m going to speak to the ‘truth’ in buying a horse, whether that be your first, second, third or tenth horse. In this episode we discuss:1:26 - episode introduction2:08 - dishonest sellers as opposed to different ‘truths’3:01 - where our truth comes from3:28 - why the difference in the ‘truth’ & what it can look like4:55 - the influential impact on the truth of the conditions the horse is kept in5:54 - examples to highlight the impact of conditions on the ‘truth’9:20 - a difference in a seller and buyers ‘truth’ about a horse & the importance of asking a seller but also observing the horse10:46 - the use of descriptive labels & getting to the bottom of what they actually mean11:46 - the exception to the rule where the ‘truths’ meet & the effort that went into setting up this mutual ‘truth’13:45 - what to do now with this information15:46 - intro to what’s coming up next episode Our links mentioned this episode:  Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm

How many people do you know who’ve had some kind of pain or illness that the human medical professionals have not been able to get to the bottom of or provide relief from? Or where it’s taken some time and robust investigations, often driven by the person or their family to figure out what’s going on?I know quite a few & have experienced this myself, and this is with the diagnostics available to human medicine.Almost daily I see equine-owning humans asking for training help online with a horse that’s body language and behaviour is indicating likely pain. Sometimes this body language from the horse is fairly explicit and other times it’s more subtle. Some of the lovely humans asking for help have sought some veterinary intervention, but it can happen that their initial vet hasn’t been able to find anything wrong.If you listened to Episode 8 in Season 1 of An Equine Conversation, Julia’s story with her horse Maddy, you’ll know that Maddy was exhibiting behaviour that indicated something was wrong and that Julia had to push past initial vet suggestions to get to the point of an actual diagnosis for what was wrong, and then how to treat and manage what was going on for him. It took some time and probing and pushing to figure it out.And here’s the thing. Pain in horses is not always possible to rule out or resolve. It’s not a matter of just saying there’s nothing wrong – because there can be and the science and diagnostic equipment just isn’t there yet to figure absolutely everything out – but, the science, the technology and the research are making progress and there’s so much more available to us than 20 years ago.I wanted to talk to an Equine Veterinarian about why it’s challenging to rule out pain in horses and what we can and should do about it as owners, so I asked my friend, Dr Lisa Walter, Equine Vet in South Australia, if she would join me for a chat. I always love speaking with Lisa as she has so much knowledge and a constant curiosity about how the horses body works – which has led her to working on a PhD in Sacroilliac dysfunction. I’m so pleased to bring this conversation to you and hope it helps expand your knowledge, awareness, understanding and ability to pursue niggles about any pain you are suspect of with your equines. Dr Lisa Walter:Lisa Walter is a veterinarian, researcher and educator with an interest in subtle lameness in sport horses, including the early identification and management of performance horses exhibiting low grade lameness, and locomotory dysfunctions. She completed her veterinary research training and veterinary degree at the University of Melbourne (1998, 2000) and has completed training in traditional Chinese medicine and acupuncture with the International Veterinary Acupuncture Society.Her research includes the validation of a radiographic measurement technique used to identify early indicators of shinsoreness in Thoroughbred racehorses, clinical identification and management of sacroiliac dysfunction, and the effectiveness of different therapeutic modalities for musculoskeletal dysfunction in horses.Lisa is based in Australia and has worked as a veterinarian in Australia and England in first opinion and referral equine practices. She currently runs her own integrative sport horse practice in the Adelaide Hills integrating veterinary medicine, acupuncture, physical therapy and therapeutic exercise to manage locomotory dysfunction in sport horses. She is a sessional lecturer for undergraduate and postgraduate veterinary courses across several universities, and is completing a PhD in sacroiliac dysfunction in horses at the University of Adelaide.Outside of work, Lisa is a horse-owning tragic. She has trained and ridden horses across various disciplines including, showing, stockwork, eventing and showjumping. She loves working with the “project” horse and has an understanding and empathy for the challenges and rewards that this can bring. In this episode we discuss:2:26 - episode introduction4:56 - introducing Dr Lisa Walter6:41 - Lisa’s start & where she’s at now with her work and Equine Veterinary interests9:16 - what brought Lisa to working on a PhD in sacroiliac dysfunction12:08 - why is it so difficult to rule out pain in horses & the challenge of identifying indicators of pain in our horses16:14 - the challenge of the Veterinary community of diagnosing more subtle conditions & the evolution of diagnostic/imaging equipment to better help diagnosis & having a non-verbal patient18:00 - diagnostic imaging technology for equines21:59 - Equine Veterinary Specialists25:20 - why should we continue to try and rule out pain in our horses & not just a ‘naughty pony’29:31 - the ‘cold backed’ horse30:19 - pain versus dysfunction & the challenge for Veterinary medicine of understanding ‘normal variation’ with the developing imaging equipment34:15 - how can individual owners contribute to further research in equine medicine?37:00 - the evolution of physiological issues - awareness, diagnosis & changes in the equine population & equine management39:55 - accessing Equine Specialists43:56 - top tips for listeners - if you’re suspect your horse might be experiencing pain45:51 - Vets who’ve done additional training in other physical modalities & the importance of having a trusted team of practitioners48:46 - if you think there’s a problem - there generally is - trust your instinct Link from this episode:In this episode, Lisa mentions Dr Sue Dyson’s work on the ridden horse pain ethogram. If you haven’t yet watched already, check out:‘The 24 Behaviors of the Ridden Horse in Pain: Shifting the Paradigm of How We See Lameness’ on YouTube to learn some about this research. Our links mentioned this episode:  Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm

We recently released our brand new and long-awaited logo for our business Abbey’s Run Equestrian. The bones of this logo have been rattling around my head for more than 2.5 years and we were finally in a position to bring it to life with the help of Evie Francesca Design Studio. While the logo itself is physically 2-dimensional, each element holds a purpose or a story about our business, what we do and why we do it. This episode is to share with you the meaning behind each of the logo elements and what they mean for what we do here at Abbey’s Run Equestrian now and into the future. In this episode we discuss:2:15 - episode introduction2:59 - why ‘Abbey’s Run Equestrian’ & who even is Abbey?9:15 - tagline: ‘Teaching humans to teach horses’11:36 - the human12:46 - the horse14:30 - the tree15:20 - the colour & An Equine Conversation logo Our links mentioned this episode:  Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm

Late last year I started seeing promotions for the film The Banshees of Inisherin, an Irish film that included a miniature donkey Jenny as one of the stars alongside a cast of several other animals and the human actors including Kerry Condon, Colin Farrell and Brendan Gleeson. I’m not always a fan of animals in films but frankly, Jenny was just gorgeous and as my partner Benn is a fan of miniature donkeys, I was paying more attention.I was so delighted to know that Jenny had been trained using positive reinforcement. Not only that, but she had been trained by someone I’d heard of for some years, Megan Hines. Working on a major motion picture with some big-name stars and experienced crew is not something many of us have exposure to, let alone training an equine using positive reinforcement to exist and perform in that environment. I was really keen to meet Megan, hear her training journey and learn about the experience on the film with Jenny… and to be able to share that conversation with you, so I invited Megan to join us for an episode of An Equine Conversation.The Banshees of Inisherin was Directed by Martin McDonagh & released here in late December 2022. It has since won 8 Golden Globes, where Colin Farrell thanked Jenny in his acceptance speech, and was nominated for 9 Oscars. If you’ve yet to see it, do make sure to have your hanky ready! Megan Hines:Megan Hines is a gentle equine trainer and coach based in County Roscommon, Ireland.Megan specialises in helping leisure horse owners and those with fearful equines to learn an equine-led approach that builds trust, motivates and brings out the character of your equine.A South African by birth, Megan was taught by South African National Equestrian Federation instructors for 10 years, where she had the opportunity to experience and compete in a variety of equestrian disciplines including vaulting, gymkhana, dressage, show jumping and cross country.Now, with over 20 years’ experience training animals with positive reinforcement (the use of rewards to motivate and shape behaviour), she is no longer competitive and is instead passionate about building a trusting human-equine relationship, avoiding stress and fear in daily handling and training, and teaching cooperative care.Megan continues to further her professional development in the areas of equine behaviour and training through study with internationally recognised equine/mixed species positive reinforcement trainers and behaviourists. Her latest training achievements include the training and handling of Jenny donkey for the acclaimed Banshees of Inisherin.Megan offers equine training and coaching, allowing you to learn the art and science of positive horsemanship: holistic horse management to best meet equine needs; true liberty work; cooperative care to problem solve for the vet, trimmer and for general handling; bring out the potential of fearful equines; ultimately enjoying a better relationship with your horse, pony, mule or donkey. In this episode we discuss:3:35 - introducing Megan5:49 - Megan’s equine learning & training journey11:04 - moving into volunteering with rescue horses & learning online13:46 - the natural horsemanship phase14:42 - moving out the other side toward training more with positive reinforcement16:04 - the importance of looking at the animal in front of you17:30 - becoming a Connection Training coach19:00 - shifting to look at holistic needs of the animals20:55 - equines learning from watching other equines learning & how that impacts float/trailer load training26:17 - more on Megan’s equines, on working with rescue mules, donkey’s & working with livery horses35:30 - on training the livery foal42:02 - how Megan came to be training Jenny the donkey for The Banshees of Inisherin  46:00 - the lead time for training before filming began & what Jenny needed to learn47:37 - how training for film relates to training our own horses for complex & stimulating environments  51:12 - and onward to shooting & working with the cast & crew55:06 - scene takes & keeping Jenny interested  57:06 - verbal cues, visual cues or both59:27 - working with the actors & Jenny1:02:32 - more on the parallels with training for film & ‘normal’ horsie life & the importance of a good relationship & time1:07:08 - where Jenny’s at now1:08:40 - Megan’s coaching services, locally & virtually world-wide1:11:07 - how online coaching compares to in person for Megan1:14:00 - Megan’s top tips for you, our listeners, that you can go and do now Links from Megan:Website: Megan Hines EquineFacebook: Megan Hines - Positive Equine Training IrelandInstagram: Megan Hines Equine Our links mentioned this episode:  Sign-up to our email listAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm

We are super excited to be back with Season 2 of An Equine Conversation. Check out the trailer for a glimpse of Episode 1 & some fun training action we’ve got going on.As with Season 1, Season 2 episodes will drop on a Wednesday morning, Melbourne/Sydney time. The season consists of 8 episodes (episodes we are so excited about bringing to your ears) plus this trailer. Episode 1 will be released on Wednesday, April 26. Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm

In today’s episode, I’m speaking with Julia Inglis, a very good friend of mine who I met virtually through a mutual friend. Julia lives over in Western Australia, the other side of the country from me, and we’re actually yet to meet in real life. Julia and I are messaging one another and sometimes talking, almost daily about horse training and management. While we had so much we talked about discussing on this episode, we decided that actually the best place to start, was with Julia’s story – or at least some of. It’s a story that there is a lot to learn from - both in the way of managing horses (particularly those with Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS) and ulcers) and in the way of training approaches.So now, let me introduce you to my good friend, Julia: Julia Inglis:Julia grew up in the UK and was animal mad from a young age, catching her first pet when a rabbit wandered into her garden. She learned to ride at school but stopped for many years when she went to university in Glasgow before moving to London for further studies. Julia completed her PhD in neuropharmacology in 2004 and went on to establish a research career in the area of pain mechanisms in arthritis.After completing her studies Julia started riding again at a local riding school, and around this time she met her now husband at a conference. He lived in Perth, Australia and in a bid to persuade her to move there started sending adverts for horse properties and horses. Within months Julia moved to Australia and they bought their first horse, which soon became 2 then 3, and is now a small farm full of animals.Julia rode traditionally for close to a decade, bush riding and dressage but when her horse refused to move under saddle ended up learning about alternative ways to train and positive reinforcement. This has now become her passion and obsession as it combines science and training geekery with animals - her two great loves. In this episode we discuss:5:00 - Julia's formative years with horses8:30 - coming to Australia (from the UK), starting with horses here & the steep learning curve when you realise how much you don’t know12:41 - the current set-up & animal collective16:01 - Julia’s learning journey with horses & evolution since becoming a horse-owner. Recognising there was more to learn about riding19:40 - the start of the challenges with Maddy’s health & training22:39 - Maddy’s health problems become more evident24:34 - needing to look beyond what you know26:12 - the impact of Maddy’s ulcers & laminitis on transitioning to training using positive reinforcement27:08 - full introduction to Maddy32:02 - managing Maddy with ulcers, laminitis & EMS - the juggle and progression of management41:07 - Julia’s training journey & shift in training approach to positive reinforcement (R+), also known as ‘clicker training’47:26 - the influence of health on behaviour49:17 - introducing Neo & his journey53:03 - where Julia’s at with training with R+ now55:04 - training with Ori (the dog) and other animals with R+ as well as the horses & the availability of learning with R+ with a dog1:00:04 - the virtual/online training experience & the benefits1:05:14 - top tips for you: understanding your horse, if your horses behaviour changes - get a vet, don’t keep doing the same thing that’s not going well & expecting different results - get expert help, don’t withhold food1:09:36 - important end-of-series announcementsLink from Julia:While not mentioned in the podcast, Julia has requested we share the link for the Western Australia (WA) Equine Clicker Trainer group so that those in WA who are interested can join and share. Our links mentioned this episode:  Sign-up to our email listStart Your Engines course+workshopAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on Facebook Thank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm

In the previous podcast episode with Sara Jackson, and in the next episode with Julia Inglis, you’ll hear mention of ‘positive reinforcement’ as a training approach. We’ve mentioned it ourselves too in talking about our Start Your Engines course+workshop.I suspect that some of you listening will be well familiar with training using positive reinforcement, but there are likely others listening who are not so sure. So in this episode, we’re going to touch on what training with positive reinforcement, often abbreviated as R+, actually is.We are not positive reinforcement purists at Abbey’s Run Equestrian, but training with positive reinforcement has become our primary and preferred approach to training anything with our horses here.This was a big switch for me, as I grew up learning and then for many years also teaching, a more conventional approach to training with horses. It was some 8 years ago that I started to change my approach, initially as I had run out of other options with a challenging horse. Since then, I have continued to learn more and more about this training approach, the body of scientific research that sits behind it, and have been thoroughly exploring it with my horses, and absolutely loving the approach, the ethos and the results. Never have I had so much consistent fun with my training.You’ll hear us talking quite a bit about positive reinforcement and all the connected bits and pieces through our podcasts to help share this fun and result producing training approach with you.In this episode I discuss:a working definition of the words ‘positive’ and ‘reinforcement’ in a training/learning context and what it means when we bring them togetherwho decides what’s pleasant (the added thing), why context matters and so the importance of having optionsbroad types of positive reinforcers (the something pleasant)the need to provide the positive reinforcement immediately after the desired behaviourthe potential to strengthen unwanted behaviours if we reinforce thema reminder of why we need to observe & interpret equine body languagethe importance of choice in training with positive reinforcementwhat you can do to start your positive reinforcement training journey right nowOur links mentioned this episode:  Sign-up to our email listStart Your Engines course+workshopAbbey's Run Equestrian websiteAbbey's Run Equestrian on FacebookThank you to Matthew Bliss for podcast production & consultation. You can find out more about podcast support on offer via: Blissery.FM or email info@blissery.fm